Beneath The Veil Part 6
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Your Story?
http://blog.dlcharles.com
Your Story?: Beneath The Veil Part 6
Like most people of my age I have led a rather varied life existence. Also, like most people, I am continually seeking ways to make money. I like money! It color coordinates with anything I wear. I just never seem to have enough of that elusive coin to retire in style.
I have been guilty of trying the internet email business many years ago. I quickly realized how irritating it was to people who receive all those emails. I hate getting them myself. I built my first computer out of a Heathkit a very long time ago. I have even managed to sell a few novels via the net over the years. Somewhere in the back of my mind I still think I can figure out a way to make this internet thing bring me financial windfalls. It has not happened as yet and probably never will.
The point I am leading up to is that it does not matter whether these things come to pass or not. I have discovered something which fulfills me in ways I had no concept of. That "something" is this blog! It truly has become a labor of love for me and my wife. To realize how, and why, it began and the way it has mushroomed into what it is constantly astounds me. The "friends" who have become so close over the years as we share the stories and the experiences are so dear to us. Due to it I now have recourse to people from all walks of life, people I never imagined existed.
You, all of you, have changed my life - and for the better. Wherever we end up going because of this blog, all of us, I believe the journey has taken on almost a life of its own. You are a fantastic group and I am so blessed to be allowed to interact with you.
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DL, you have no idea how many lives you have touched since you started this blog. I for one am extremely thankful that you did create this blog and I am grateful to know there are so many of us that can help each other.
You are a gentleman and please keep of this hard work.
We all need you, more than you ever will truly know.
Thank you my friend.
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As are you, good sir - as are you!
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Wow!! Part 6...you really started something here, DL. I am so grateful to be a part of this story! We have, all, found a home on this blog. It is nice to see so many of us be able to get up and get going again Holiday. I salute you!!!
Keep it going!!!
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I meant get going again AFTER Holiday...just noticed my misprint!!!!
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We thank you for starting this blog, it made a huge difference for me to know I was not the only one! BTW I knew Frank Hill personally and loved him dearly. I was the person whose boxes were sent to this door by mistake! I am glad he is in a better place. And believe me, he did not exaggerate one bit! The craziest place I have ever been!
op
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Katrina: I envy you! I find myself very curious to know more about this man. I would love to write his biography.
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Would have loved to have known him better too. I am sure he has a great story. He has one son that I know of, believe he lives in Hawaii.
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I haven't checked the blog for awhile since, like a lot of us, I've moved on beyond the "Holiday craziness".
Sadly, Frank Hill's summary is commonplace and played out in multiple communities across the country.
So many lives are turned upside down by the downright stupidity of the people running that company. Those of us who were on the front lines, working the hardest and caring for our residents, were the least appreciated and in the end, most abused.
Hardworking, honest, compassionate and ethical managers are fired in droves. They keep some of the laziest, most incompetent, unethical people you can imagine (notwithstanding there are still some fabulous managers!!).
Even at the regional level, they're fired and replaced with "Yes men", who do their unethical bidding. Bob Wright is a prime example; lied and reported many phantom move ins. He was promoted and the honest man was fired.
DL, I also applaud you for this site. It has been a comfort and much-needed connection, especially when one is in the throes of the Holiday pressure cooker.
I am still amazed that this company has not been sued tons of times and that it is even still in business. Prior to finding my current company I can hardly believe that I jumped from the frying pan into the fire and found one that is if not worse, then at least equal to Holiday. Stay as far away as you can get from ALC --Assisted Living Concepts! One difference is they were openly crooked and took MAJOR advantage of our seniors.
Now that I am with another, much more ethical company, I realize just how far gone Holiday is. My current company appreciates the employees and shows it. We are not micro-managed as long as we do our job and we are compensated and appreciated for what we do. I can't believe the difference.
Keep up the good work and if you're still with Holiday my heart goes out to you. Until you leave there's no way you will fully comprehend how badly you are being used... and will be thrown away at a whim.
DL, thank you for the wonderful service you have provided by creating this blog.
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I have experienced being thrown away at a whim. I guess there were too many new legitimate move ins and not enough "ghosts" like the guy that just got promoted. Do you mind steering me toward a company that values employees? I have worked in senior living communities for over twenty years and am passionate about their care. Qualities that were lost completely on management.
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A Collective Action Suit has been filed on behalf of all managers and co-managers against Harvest Management Sub LLC. This has been filed on my behalf, Sallie Cwik, and on the behalf of others similiarly situated.
This suit is in regards to the Fair Labor Standards Act and specifically with regards to overtime.
I cannot urge to you strongly enough to put your words into action. There is a great deal of anger and frustration voiced on this blog - now you DO have the opportunity to make things better. There is no cost to become involved, even if (when) we win. Please join me as we help to rectify some of the wrongs.
Signed - Glad to Be Gone (I have given DL permission to give you my email - just ask him to send it to you).
Call David Medby or Stephen Garcia
Phone: (562) 216-5270
Garcia, Artigliere & Schadrack
One World Trade Center
Suite 1950
Long Beach, CA 90831
Website: http://www.lawgarcia.com
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They need to have worked during the time period from September 26, 2009 to September 26, 2012.
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A Collective Action Suit has been filed on behalf of all managers and co-managers against Harvest Management Sub LLC. This has been filed on my behalf, Sallie Cwik, and on the behalf of others similiarly situated.
This suit is in regards to the Fair Labor Standards Act and specifically with regards to overtime.
I cannot urge to you strongly enough to put your words into action. There is a great deal of anger and frustration voiced on this blog - now you DO have the opportunity to make things better. There is no cost to become involved, even if (when) we win. Please join me as we help to rectify some of the wrongs.
Signed - Glad to Be Gone (I have given DL permission to give you my email - just ask him to send it to you).
Call David Medby or Stephen Garcia
Phone: (562) 216-5270
Garcia, Artigliere & Schadrack
One World Trade Center
Suite 1950
Long Beach, CA 90831
Website: http://www.lawgarcia.com
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Does anyone have recommendations for a NON-HOLIDAY, legitimately 3 level independent-assisted-nursing facility in Oregon? Looking for alternatives to the ubiquitous Holiday facilities, which seem to be seriously flawed.
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What area of Oregon? There are some rather nice communities that could I could connect you with.
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Jeff Roderick, who was with Holiday, is now working with Frontier Management in the northwest. I believe they have facilities in Oregon and if you know Jeff, then you know anything he does is absolutely of the highest quality. It's worth researching.
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I think you can track Jeff down through Linkedin also. So many of the good ones were replaced by what.
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Hello, PART VI !!! (I just want to be among the first...)
And, DL, we all appreciated what you've done to give us this forum. Many thanks!
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Thanks! Now that's funny. Good job!
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During the course of this blog there are some things which you are not aware of. I receive a tremendous amount of emails from individuals who ask to be kept off the blog. Many of these people write me with their stories and "evidence", sometimes documented - sometimes not, of alleged wrongdoing by the company. Quite often I am asked to help these people correct their problem and provide them with some type of redress potential. I am not an attorney and I cannot offer legal advice.
I have received a few rather obscene and even threatening emails because of the blog. This is part and parcel of having a site on the internet. But the major problem I have had to deal with has been the attempts to sneak spam on under the guise of comments. This takes a lot of time to control.
I stress again that I delete URLs and email addys, but I do not edit the comments. I strongly suggest you take a moment to proof what you write before you press the "submit" button. Did you insert specifics as to location or self which gives you away? I cannot protect against such.
I receive and make numerous telephone calls with many of you. When feasible I am able to offer suggestions from my background experience or make contact with individuals who have answers. Sometimes it is you who offers suggestions to me - and I take those suggestions seriously.
An interesting note here: Constant research does not bring forth any other retirement company which has the numbers of complaints that this one does. Glassdoor, Monster, etc. - none of them show other companies having the amount of problems. Why is that? Do they actually treat their residents and employees better? If anyone knows different please so advise me.
Finally, once again I will attempt to reach out to Holiday Retirement. We will welcome a spokesperson with authority to make decisions and I promise to see that spokesperson has a fair audience treat him/her with respect. It boils down to what the company intends to do with 300 communities. If the company is going to keep operations going then solutions are simple to set in motion. If not then "'fess up" and get on with it. Many would willingly return to the company if they knew a fair treatment was in place.
It takes a collective voice to create a roar instead of a single voiced whisper.
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DL Charles" I am so sorry to hear that you have had threats from people over this site, but you know if someone didn't feel threatened by the info provided on here then maybe no one would believe all of what is written by employees and residents who have been wronged or even the ones who have good stories to tell.
You have provided a wonderful website for all of us, and it helps to know that there are others in the same bucket and that we are all not losers and incompetent at the job we had.
I for one do not have to worry about if they figure out who I am since I don't work for them anymore. I do try to be careful not to name names mostly.
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Nicely put! I for one would return to my job under different circumstances. I loved my job and have struggled significantly since being let go two months ago.
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Katrina: were you an EC. It was a shock to us, but we were of the old regime and knew it was just a matter of time before we got axed, esp the dinghy RD we had (who got axed a month later). Hope you find a new job and it hasn't left you too gun shy, if you've read some of this website you'll know you are not the only one.
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No, I was a co-manager. Yes the mgr that let me go was gone in month. Conisdering the nightmare of unprofessionalism in our hiring and training I don't know why I would be surprised at anything that happened. I am very gunshy right now and suffering from a total lack of confidence and downright fear. Like many I was confident that I could handle anything and like my job enough to put up with it. It is only after you have left that you realize how stressed you are.
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Another example of how poor the leadership is at FIG.
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Fortress Investment Group LLC's (FIG) former Chief Executive Daniel Mudd received $1.25 million in bonus last year, but was forced to forfeit some of his stock options upon his resignation.
Mudd received a $3 million bonus in 2010.
Fortress, whose fourth quarter earnings swung to a net loss of $234.1 million, lost its chief executive last month when Mudd resigned after the former chief of government-backed mortgage company Fannie Mae (FNMA) was named a defendant in an alleged civil-securities fraud lawsuit over his role during the subprime mortgage crisis.
How does someone make a bonus when they lose 234.1 million?
There needs to be an investagation set forth on FIG/HRC.
Not sure you to contact but something needs to be done because these people are incompetent.
HRC just hired a new COO, that just like the rest has no experience with seniors or in senior independent living. The maddest never ends.
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WOW the new Holiday web site is a joke.
First, almost no mention of "Holiday Touch".
Under the tab "Live in Managers"
Here are just a few important benefits of live-in managers:
•You always know where to find them and their doors are always open if you have a question or just want to chat. REALLY NO DAYS OFF ALOUD?
•They not only organize great activities – they participate. WHEN DOES THIS HAPPEN?
•They are always willing to help, whether it’s carrying groceries, pouring your morning cup of coffee, or greeting you with a hug. REALLY, CARRYING GROCERIES???
THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WHO IS CLUELESS WITH WHAT WE DO.
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I AGREE WITH THIS THERE IS NO HOLIDAY TOUCH AT THE ONE I WORKED AT THE MANGERS ARE A JOKE IM TELLING YOU THE WOMAN MANAGER THANKS EVERY PRETTY GIRL THAT WORKS THERE IS TRYING TO STEAL HER HUSBAND SO SHE FIRES THEM FOR NO REASON
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I understand this website. I even agree with the need to vent and complain. But. I don't understand some of the comments made... really. The benefits of the live in managers is for our residents.... not the managers. I get my time off. My wife and I do get days off and they are not only aloud but pushed. Our managers and their boss actually kick us out and tell us to go home sometimes. You see..... when we have time off.... funny thing.... there is a new concept that takes place. It's called..... the other managers. My boss plays cards with the residents. It's not work to him.... weird.... he calls it fun. My wife plays Wheel of furtune and other games.... she chooses to. Willing to help? LOL. This makes me laugh. I thought that is what we were here for. My cable is out. Funny.... three or four times a week.... tough work. I do something really ...really difficult. I go up and put their TV back on channel 3. It's really really hard. You know what would be really hard? Having your elevator go down everyday for two weeks. I may not like only one elevator sometimes but that is what we have. Carry walkers down stairs, Escort people who need support, deliver food to 20 people who can't get down.
My job is to make this easier for the residents here. To smile when the same people are late by ten to fifteen minutes to every meal. Do I eat? Yes. On time every day? No.... But.... this is Holiday retirement for them not for me. From the last job title I had for close to 33 years....THIS IS A piece of cake. Will it get harder? Probably. Wiil some days be easier? Probably.
My wife and I have been blessed with trainers that have patience and big hearts. Smart people too. If you have not ....... you have too choices. Leave. You can't handle it it's not what you expected.No Judgement. Stay. help the people who care about the residents. Help the people who want this company to be better and help it to grow. Something wrong where you are? The people above or below you idiots? Set the example. Be the business person and makes your calls. But..... keep your residents. Make them happy... they will sell the Holiday touch.
I don't walk around saying Holiday touch. I don't really care what that is. I ask my people how they are. I serve coffee. I tease them and make them laugh. I don't do everything for them because they are independant. Listen to them. Be a friend once in a while. Oh wait. The Holiday touch.... hmmmmm.
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Good for you Fred. Guess what?? I did the same thing. Did everything I knew how to do. Worked long hours, helped the people, set the example, worked long hours, worked when I didn't have to, teased them, loved them. Still got the ax from idiots who didn't do near what I did. Good luck!!
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I hear ya sister!! AMEN!!
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Your are so right. This website is ONLY for those disgruntled self centered people who thought this job was going to be a piece of cake and they wanted their cake and eat it too. Wake up!! Nobody ever said this was going to be simple. It's work and it's not for those who are lazy and self centered. Hard days? Yeah there are those. Long days? Yeah it's there. Weeks at a time with no help? Yep it happens but it should have been expected. Where else can you work and get a free apartment, free food, free housekeeping and no electricity bill? The new people have no sense of compassion when it comes to the real holiday job. It's work. It's tough. It's worth it.
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EEEWWWWWWWW!!!!!
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No Sour Grapes: This website if far from what you claim it to be. I worked for Holiday long enough to learn about some of its deceptive practices.
I was far from lazy, far from being uninvolved and am certainly far from being afraid of hard work. There's a little thing I do when I smell stink....I sniff. What does that mean? It means someone has rectal cranial inversion. Figure that out!
Had it not been for two incredible managers that happened along to our community, both who believed powerfully in the original grass roots of holiday, our community would certainly not have been at 100%. Secondly, if managers are using the housekeepers to clean their own units...shame on them. So if that is you, the housekeepers are there to clean the resident units...not your own! Who is being lazy now?
Current managers are trained to sell sell sell and not to work the operational side of the business. Second, often managers or co's are hired without the proper people skills...at least the skills to work with the elderly. Failure to do the above two items results in unhappy residents, which results in move outs and no referrals. Although no longer with my community, in my current job I hear all kinds of unsolicited opinions from the elderly about Holiday Retirement and it's not pleasant.
Seniors are not stupid and they can read through crap a mile a way...and they are talking about it. Especially in small communities..the word gets around.
None one with any common sense knows a job takes work. But, it would certainly help if in training they would tell managers "truthfully" what they can expect. The problem is...those doing the hiring have no clue. They are like puppets who train them on what the home office requires and then sends them into the unknown. They are ill-prepared for what the real experience will be for them at any given community.
They tell them they are going to one communtiy and then send them to another half way across the country. They promise them a "luxury" apartment and the find themselves squeezed into a 400 Sq. Ft. Apartment with a bedroom that barely holds a queen size bed and one dresser. Oh, and I should mention the tiny closet that is expected to hold the clothes of two grown adults. Sometimes, there is not even a kitchennette.
No Sour Grapes, you either work in the upper group of Holiday, are new to the job and have no clue...yet, or have your head so far up some regional's rear-end to get ahead or are merely a plant. Either way, those of us who presently or formerly work/worked for Holiday know the truth and the words you have written are nothing more than just that...words. Why? Because we all know you will eventually find out the hard way.
I will add that on occasion, one or two new hires will filter through who fit your description of "lazy," however, most who write here are hard working people with a love for the elderly.
As a former CSL, I have seen it all!
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Funny I didn't even see that - you are correct wwhy is he having his apt cleaned - that is not allowed. The overblown guy I was talking about did that too, even had maintenance pack his belongings up to move.
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I agree with most of what you have said, except for "free apartment, free food, free housekeeping, and no electricity bill". Those are all included in your 54+ hours you're putting in every week. And those are your waking hours and doesn't include the time you get up in the middle of the night to answer an ecall. Check your paystub. That's about $7.00 an hour. But I know, you're not in it for the money.
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That is great and good for you. We did the same thing, only frequently without days off, sometimes for weeks on end.We were told by our RM that our first community held the record for the most complaints in the entire company and that our care, love and attention to the residents turned those complaints off like a faucet. The managers we came in under sis not allow us to do ANYTHING, the residents hated them - they called her Cruella - she told those wonderful people that they were not ALLOWED to laugh during meals - REALLY! We were promoted and transferred - and told that we were to fire the very competent co's who were in our new community. They had worked under two dictator type sets of managers and were not trained, but they knew that they had not been properly trained and were willing and able to learn. They were wonderful with the residents, but nothing they did was good enough for the RM. The female co was disliked by the set of managers who immediatley preceed us, who were promoted and moved as well. The male of that dynamic duo had a home in New England, and flew back and forth on the corporate account, he worked less than 6 days out of every two weeks, leaving his fiance to run the property. The RM knew what was going on, but this couple (the man of the big, over blown vocabulary and equally overblown sense of self), were the favorites of the RM. The supposedly left the community in "Prime Condition", but the dining room carpets had not been cleaned in over three months, the servers were 100% untrained, the kitchen was dirty (earning less than a 70 from the Regional Chef), and the co's were allowed to do nothing but pour coffee, serve and do dishes when the staff didn't bother to show up, because there were no consequences when they didn't. The residents were outraged and angry when we got there. The census was the lowest in the region, they had a good sales guy, but again the former managers did all of the WOW planning, all of the "marketing" and advertising. Oddly nothing ever really got done, and the gurus didn't improve the census or resident satisfaction, but they did dislike the co's. So we were charged with getting rid of them. We refused, and we were threatend. Then threatend again - told to be very afraid. All less than 6 weeks after receiving the Touch of Excellence award. Our RM, did not allow us to move dead residents out, so he could skew the numbers, not just in our community but all of them - that's how he kept coming in at the top - by lying and cheating. Things that I do not do. I am sorry that you think we are all disgruntled and glad that you still have the passion. I do to, I am working with seniors with a company that really does put their residents first, they are honest, reliable and 100% committed to their employees. I still work very hard, I still love my residents just as much, yes - I am still their friend - but with a loving touch not a Holiday slap. Don't judge -don't be sanctimonious. Good Luck!
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One of my favorite lines out of our Grass Roots book was the one that said if you are not serving the resident, you should be serving someone who is. While we were with Holiday Retirement for 7 yrs that is just what we did. We poured coffee, we carried groceries, we gave hugs everyday. Then we were told to hire a person to pour the coffee, etc. Until they get someone who knows how to treat these residents, stop hiring "Blue Lighters" and go back to Grass Roots Holiday will never make it. You can teach someone to make the calls, to do the tours, to handle the paperwork but you can not teach someone how to care. These seniors deserve our love and respect. They are truly the Greatest Generation.
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My wife and I were trained with the Grass Roots training and we try to apply those principles every day. The lack of compassion by everyone above the RD position is just sickening. Don't dare say that you did not make calls because you were dealing with an e-call because they will want to work until late into the evening to get caught up. The RD's and RSL's get to sit at home enjoying time with their family while harrassing us to make more calls.
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Really interested in Just Asking asking names of good non-Holiday
3-level retirement communities in OR, and Discouraged answering, asking what area in OR interested in. I am asking Discouraged for those community names, in the Portand south down the Willamette Valley area, inc. Hillsboro se to Mount Angel .
Would greatly appreciate a reply.
I'm asking, as Just Asking did, for the Portland down through Willamette Valley area, esp. Hillsboro s/e thru
Mount Angel. Surely would appreciate your reply, Discouraged.
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If dlcharles would give you my email, I can provide you with the information you've requested. I have a feeling the one I have in mind for you would be wonderful.
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Discouraged, I'd appreciate having your e-mail address if it's ok for dlcharles to provide it to me. Am interested in the facility you have in mind in the upper Willamette Valley in Oregon.
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To DL Charles --- Discouraged writes above that if you will send me his/her email address I can be givien that info. Can you do that? I presume that the letter above gives permission for that. Thanks
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dlcharles...would you mind sharing my email address with Just Asking? Thanks
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Done.
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Thanks dlcharles. Appreciate it.
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I was a CSL and when in training we went over the Veteran's Aid and Attendance program briefly. One thing that I specifically remember and found in my notes, that when a person is moved in on a VAA deferment and are turned down for whatever reason, they do not owe the back rent and cannot be made to pay it. Of course, if they ARE approved, the balance would be due once a check is received from the VAA program.
I've read some comments here that seem to point to some being billed for the deferred amount or otherwise responsible for it. Is this true? If the policy was to defer but collect if they were turned down, I was told something that was untrue and put in a very bad position to tell potential move-ins that they'd not be charged.
There are other things that I was told that turned out to be wrong and made me realize that my RSL (SJ) and RD (DS) position was to say whatever made the move in go through and that they would not back you up if things went awry. They cared nothing for what the CSL and Managers went through, they were always more and more demanding in the most unreasonable way with no direction, training or productive time given...even worse cared absolutely NOTHING for the residents. One of these people is gone and the other still employed but for the life of me can't imagine why since they do absolutely NOTHING at all.
I would encourage any current employee to scour the employee manual and get anything at all you are unsure about copied and put in a personal place. As we all know, much of what we do isn't in that manual so insist on getting it in writing (forward the emails to your personal email address for safekeeping) because this company will not back you up... ever! Unfortunately a request for things in writing will make you out to be an agitator or not a "team player" but in the end, you very well be made out to be a fool.
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To Jackson: You are correct about the VA and the deferment and not supposed to owe it if they are turned down for the aid and attend benefit; or if approved they owe the back amount from the retroactive pay they receive.
I know how you feel about not saying something that is not right or above board. Our previous manager would promise residents that they did not have to pay rent increases, they'd take care of it and never did do the paperwork for the discount or whatever. We ended up having to straighten out a lot of the paperwork after the fact where the resident would money. They also did not take care of the submitting of the paperwork for the VA and Attend on all the move-ins.
I did post about the one man I heard who was evicted and since this is hearsay information I am not sure why he did not get the benefit, but I think that 24 hrs is really a burden on a person to get a new home and move when the person was on dialysis, really I call it elder abuse and quite heartless, esp since the building is not suffering for the lack of apartments for someone to rent if they popped in the door. Or who knows maybe it was taking longer than 9-10 months to be approved also. I do know of one lady and the VA did send her updates when they would call her for more and more info that they needed, she was near 9 months into the process and they were still working on it.
And backing you on anything does not exist with the RD's they have in place, I doubt if half the RD's have a clue as to what is going on or even stay in the building any longer than they have to. The RD we had was gone less than 2 mo after we were let go, hurray for that she got hers I believe, but not till after the world was upset and more mindless idiots put in place, including the one we had before her.
It seems the more honest you are the more you are stabbed in the back. But that's OK, what comes around, goes around and it has bit a few back, hopefully it will end up getting more everywhere for all of those who have had to live through the baloney dished out by idiots.
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I mentioned awhile back that the Managers had gone to a new caregiver and told her she had to fill out new paperwork because the woman did NOT get the amount that Holiday planned on. Holiday had the managers aid in the paperwork and then when push came to shove with the VA A&A, they shoved it off on the new caregiver and she was lost. I told her to throw it back on management. I saw the elder woman at the store and she is not there anymore. Could not afford it!
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Anonymous: This was something that we were never involved in since we did not have any inhouse caregiver in the building at our last building and the building before we didn't deal with that either, whatever a person paid for an outside caregiver was up to the resident to make sure he reported it correctly and turned in the bills for it.
As I am sure you are all aware of, the person either receives the benefit for theirself singly or as a married couple or the widow or widower of a vet, therefore the amount varies as to what is paid to a person or persons. One of the things a person has to have is some sort of assistance on a daily basis for meds, bathing, dressing, etc to qualify for the benefit. I imagine there are still a lot of people who do not have enough money to pay for the care-service out of pocket even with the stipend awarded; look at the amount that is charged for the apartment then the amount that is awarded by the VA and imagine how much they may still be short, esp if the person does not have a lot of money from social security to make up the difference. If the person does not have family who can help out they will still be stuck on a limb, albeit it is still cheaper in a lot of cases to be at a Holiday property with services by an outside provider compared to the assisted living facilities which are very costly. I for one most likely would never be able to afford a Holiday property unless I had help from our kids.
There were a lot of the elders living at the communities we have been at who are living on a very close edge monetarily, there were quite a few who didn't even have the money to go out to eat outside of the property when the activity director ran the bus; this is something that Holiday does not understand the economy is not here and has not been here for several years and the elders just don't have the money in a lot of cases.
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@nightmareworld..not all management teams were involved with the paperwork. I used to work closely with a woman from AMVETS. She explained the paperwork process and was great at it. When Holiday went with the new group of investors, the problems started. They shot for the greatest amount and that was wrong. It is up to a certain amount that they can qualify for, not the entire amount. Rents would be deferred on the entire amount and some did not qualify for the larger sum. That was bad. Did not know they had eviction notices going out now. How horrible! Do they have no conscience?!!
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Anonymous: I knew very little of the paperwork until I helped one lady make sure she had everything filled out and signed, and then there were other things that she didn't know about that she had to have filled out and submitted which I hope helped her qualify before she ran out of money; she was confined to a motorized wheelchair and had problems even getting around in her apartment without it.
We heard our 1st seminar in March of 2011 after the managers were let go and I tried to take extensive notes on it, our manager had been very closed mouthed on info on the process and what the criteria was, and the man doing the seminar also was very tight lipped. I wanted to be at least able to let a person know if they a had any chance of being qualified in anyway for the benefit and how they came to the determination, I hated to be entirely ignorant on the subject.
I also talked to someone at another community who was supposed to be knowledgeable about the process and and this person did not even know that a person claiming the benefit could not drive a car.
Back in about 2007 I guess the XL side (the other Colson son) was trying to get involved in the VA&A benefit, but in those days the rent at the properties did not count, only the charges they had from an outside caregiver service. By the time we returned in 2009 the rules had changed, then we were changed to a different community in 2010 and the rent was being deferred by what I thought was a flat rate.
We had the son in-law of one dear sweet husband and wife tell us that one of the reps only considered working with them if they invested money with his group, this man said they did not have any money to invest and dropped the process. Once the old managers left needless to say several months later after the fact of the residents move-in and the discounted rate on the apartment (very cheap for two), this was found out. Once explained that we had a different rep and it was not a requirement for them to have to invest money to submit paperwork, the family was going to start working on the process again. I don't know if they every got it or not and I have heard since last year sometime, the husband had to go to a nursing home and died and his wife died a month later. I am not sure which set of managers moved them in, but the ball was dropped and once they are dead now I hope Holiday has a fit getting their money back.
I am sure all of these move-ins were done just to get a move-in no matter what it took to keep the census up and there were no check and balances to make sure the paperwork was being done or even submitted on a timely basis. I really hate trying to clean up other people's messes myself just because they hire know-it -all managers who have no clue and let RD's go who might have known what was going on a long time before months after the fact.
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The managers were not allowed to aid the resident in filing or filling out any of the paperwork. HRC cheated and lied to residents about the whole process. The investment group wanted to get irrevocable trusts set up with them as the beneficiaries. I talked to a resident's daughter and she backed off when they tried to convince her that that was the only way. The group, I imagine, made lots of money off these residents. They were connected to FIG.
Sorry you got dragged into this mess. Everything was to be forgiven if the resident was denied or did not get the full amount of benefits. The games never cease to amaze me.
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By the VA rules on filing for the VA A&A benefits, the community manager “must” certify that the applicant(s) lives at the community and how much rent is being paid. In that same certification it also must state if the applicant receives help from a home health care agency or health care provider. All of this “must” be certified by the community manager.
Now, if you really think about it, what does Holiday do? The give the people a huge break in rent pending approval of the A&A application.
What amount of rent is being mentioned on the A&A application? The actual rent as it should be or the discounted rent that these people are paying at that moment? Dollars to donuts, the are writing down the “full rent amount” which again is false because that is not what the applicant(s) is/are paying.
All the way around, what Holiday is doing is fraudulent by law and no one is doing anything about it. Only in America.
Now, as for the irrevocable trust issue, if you can get proof that “they” (and I use your language and I am assuming you meant the investment group) forced the applicant(s) to make the investment group to become the beneficiary of the irrevocable trusts, I really think you need to speak to your State’s Attorney because that is as illegal as hell. What rights do the families of these applicant(s) have. If you think about it, these applicant(s) are signing away their entire life savings to the investment group.
Please find out about this and please try to get proof. That, “in my humble opinion” could nail Holiday/FIG. But please make 110% sure you can proof your statement(s) because it all could backfire on you. Wow. There must be much more to this that meets the eye.
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Thanks, Achmed. I talked to a resident's daughter that was attending one of the seminars from the investment group and they told her about the irrevocable trust. She backed off, but told me others had signed the contract. I will try to get names and dates and then contact the State's Attorney.
HRC is putting the full amount of rent, but charging only for the portion that will not be covered by the VA A&A. That has been happening since the onset of the program.
Thank you for your insight and suggestions.
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Anonymous and Achmed: I do not know that any of the residents we had fell for the ploy of the investment group, I believe most of the ones we had were really pretty much moniless and by the time we came to the facility they had a new rep who was also an investment group, but I don't think he ever got any business from the people applying.
Yes there is always a vulture somewhere waitin'.
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Yes, it used to be that Holiday would "write off" the deferred amounts for those applying for VAA if something happened to the process. NOW they actually send a collection notice. I THINK they have formed a collection company. I have actually seen one of the collection notices sent to a resident.
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Linny
This is something people need to be wary of now it sounds like: I think most of the people who applied for VA&A at our old community should have been able to collect the benefit with no problems. We did have one lady who ended up having to go to a higher level of care so I don't know if she even followed up on moving the claim, and one couple who was turned down and ended up moving suddenly out of state. This is a case of the changing game plan by Holiday as usual.
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I lost two move-ins because they were worried that they wouldn't get approved. At the time, I didn't know all the details about how one would qualify and in hindsight am glad that they didn't move in. It would have been very wrong for the potential resident and it would have looked bad for me. That doesn't mean that the RD and RSL didn't try to put on more and more pressure; they didn't care one whit about whether it was on the up and up or not. It was move-ins at any cost. Shame shame shame on them.
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Well, I think you better update your resume because you will be canned.
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I no longer work at holiday and will continue to speak out to warn potential employees and until they stop their horrible employment and resident practices.
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Jackson, I would really love to see an RD or RSL really have to sell the property and get a move in and stay until they did, heck let the managers have a vacation with pay while they did this.
Yes I never wanted to twist someones arm and get them into something they could not afford in the long run, with or without the VA&A.
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Lol. I'd love to see that too but it will never happen. They couldn't run a community if their lives depended upon it.
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This company continues to ignore the fact the it is the CM' and CO's that can make or brake this company. We are the back bone to keeping residents satisfied so they don't move out as well as get all the move-ins that they want yet we are treated as if we are nothing more then a means to an end. I have yet to meet anyone that I would consider a Leader in the RD's and above. Hard to lead when you have never done this job. They tell us to get move-ins but have no clue on how to get them. These people have never conducted a tour, made a phone call or even sold anything, but somehow they tell us how to do our jobs. WHAT A JOKE. I have never worked for a company so laking in leadership as this one.
If you are reading this BLOG and are considering working for this company be prepared to be micro managed like never before. Be prepared to have your job threaten regularly if your not making the calls and producing move-ins. If after reading some of the stories on this BLOG and you still take the job, well all I can say is good luck.
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Here is something that I think is missing from this company. Leadership.
Leadership can be defined as one's ability to get others to willingly follow. Are they anyone that is at the RD level and above that anyone wants to WILLINGLY follow?
A leader with vision has a clear, vivid picture of where to go, as well as a firm grasp on what success looks like and how to achieve it. But it’s not enough to have a vision; leaders must also share it and act upon it. Jack Welch, former chairman and CEO of General Electric Co., said, "Good business leaders create a vision, articulate the vision, passionately own the vision and relentlessly drive it to completion." This is missing big time from the leadership of this company. NO VISION.
A leader must be able to communicate his or her vision in terms that cause followers to buy into it. He or she must communicate clearly and passionately, as passion is contagious. Other then move-ins I have not seen any passion towards a vision especially "HOLIDAY TOUCH".
Without solid leadership a company will fail. Just look at history and at all the companies that have failed. Their failure was in direct proportion to poor leadership.
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Does anyone remember what happened to circuit city a few years back?. In a stunning move by upper management, they decided to let go of about 1/3 their workforce that had some tenure there for what--to save some money on higher salaries. I know I have close relatives that worked for them over 10 years and got canned. They decided to bring in all the junior help and make them managers. Circuit City is now in oblivion because they got rid of all the good help. SOUND FAMILIAR? Holiday is asking to go to hell in a handbasket by firing tenured employees and bringing in new people with little to no experience working with seniors and putting them in charge. Whats the vision here -- save a few bucks? or taking care of seniors.
Good luck dumbasses.
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My Comments on Glassdoor , hope it helps some people....
“Move ins is all that matters”
Former Community Manager in Ottawa, ON (Canada) – Reviewed 3 weeks ago
Pros – A company with a fantastic Mission Statement , an exclusive concept supposed to encrich the lives of so very deserving seniors .
Cons – All the Focus is on getting new residents to sign a lease , once done nothing else matters. The Seniors well being and life enrichment is ignored.
Advice to Senior Management – It would be prudent to set realisitc goals , that are achieveable as well as sustainable. Someone up there decided that every building run by Holiday Retirement should be at a 100% Occupancy , which may or may not be possible at each individual building. The Management has slowly been led by out and out sales people at the regional and district level , who have no idea about daily operations and the day to day activities involved in running a sucessful building. In the words of The Regional Director the one and the only measure of a sucessfully run building is the number of Net Move-Ins every month...Period.
So all those community management teams that can sustain this are doing fine ....what senior management has to realize that how many of these so called move-ins are true and not just a lease printed out without any signatures or a deposit cheque.If they (senior managent ) would pay attention to this and make it mandatory that a copy of the signed lease and an actual cheque number be required at the time of the lease , all these fudged numbers on the board would be accounted for .
The Regional Sales lead to earn his bonus is actually leasing out apartments which are a downsize from the actual apartment rented and then forcing managers to switch to the actual apartment by doing a in house transfer when the new resident moves in. What this means is that if a resident is moving in into a 1Bed Room Apartment , the lease is made out for a Studio apartment which does not require any discounts in-fact this is projected as an apartment rented out at a higher cost that the actual monthly rent , therefore letting the RSL earn a much larger bonus , when the resident acually moves in the Managers are asked by the RD and the RSL to do a transfer into the actual apartment that was rented.
In case this is not obvious to senoir management then some one up there is willingly lettting this happen to achieve his/her committment to a 100% occupancy and save their job , or is incompetent enough not to realize what is going on.
MoreLess
Former employee - worked at Holiday Retirement full time for more than a year
Work/Life BalanceCompensation & BenefitsCareer OpportunitiesSenior LeadershipCulture & ValuesDisapproves CEO Rating .Would not recommend this company to a friend Thinks the company will perform worse .
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Wow, you hit the nail on the head. Very very well written.
I have said so many times before on this blog that none of the Regional Directors have “ever” managed a community or did any of the paperwork when it comes to Rental agreements or dealt with any medical issues with residents, i.e. death.
The term “Regional Director” at Holiday Retirement should be changed to Nazi.
Current Holiday Retirement is truly lucky (so far) that none of the current employees has tried to unionize this company which in it self is really amazing for what all the employees have to put up with.
Keep in mind, all Canadian Holiday Communities are unionized.
I really think the time has come that Holiday Retirement employees need to look into bringing a union into the communities because NO ONE, I mean, absolutely NO ONE should have to put up with the daily BS that all community employees are putting up to.
Just my two cents worth.
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wow,your statement that all buildings in canada are unionized is breathtaking,in its falsehood.
if you think life is rough managing a building,and having people work together,try the union out for a test drive and watch the employee-management fracture widen.
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Ok, would you please care to explain in detail what really is going on in aunion environment in the communities? That's what we all want to learn and how are the RD's in Canada dealing with the community management as compared to the US?
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perhaps explain your perception that all buildings in canada are unionized?
i WAS a chef for 12 years with hrc in western canada
is a union good for employees as a whole with bad managers-for sure.i know for a fact though that unionized buildings were paid less than other buildings in the same province-you want a union-fine but here enjoy your 1.5 % raise.many of the union people i knew are so ingrained now, that i imagine they could not hold a job elsewhere without a union
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My husband anf I have been interviewed for a possible position on Canada. Any comments?
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Okay, I'm not meaning this to come off sarcastically...but REALLY? If you read this blog, surely you already have all the answers you need to your own question. However, as so many have put it before me....if you've read this and choose to move forward anyway, then I wish you well...truly. Like many before you, should you decide to accept a position with Holiday, you will eventually begin to write on this blog too! And, eventually, you may even quit or be fired. The truth is all here. Read, absorb, consider, pray about it (definitely) - you already have the answer.
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My thoughts exactly. When you change your home, put in more hours than just about any job, get paid far too little and get beat up on a daily basis, I think it's worth the hours that it will take to read this blog in it's entirety. People think that they will be different that those here are a bunch of complainers or there must be something more to the story but there's not and most people here are not complainers. They are people who have been put through the ringer by this company and are here to warn others. If someone still goes ahead, they need to really have a plan b because it's not a matter of it, it's a matter of when.
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To Jackson...well said. To Kaleigh, Invest in the investigation first. Invest in your future by checking out all that is presented and offered to you. You have a great advantage because there are many upon many of people who have already traveled down this road, who asked the same question as you, who decided to make a go of it and then within a matter of a few months, were back on this blog telling us we were correct and not just a bunch of complainers. For the record...I left on my own and under my own terms. But I admit to sticking out the frustration and continued disappointment until just the right job came along. Like many, I also understand the economy has forced many people into positions they would never choose under normal circumstances. Just go in with your eyes open if you choose the job with Holiday and be prepared for emergency calls sometimes two to three a night. Be prepared to pour coffee three times during each meal. Be prepared for long hours. Be prepared for a 560 Sq. Ft. Apartment if you plan to be co's. Yes, that's luxury for you. Be prepared to make 40 calls a day. Be prepared to sell and not make a quality home for the seniors. Just...be prepared. What they didn't tell you in the two weeks of training you will experience...well, it will happen. Jackson...would you agree?
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Yes, I would absolutely agree - it's all true and shouldn't be dismissed if someone is seriously considering working for this company.
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My advice is to run as fast as you can in the opposite direction; just read this blog to save your health and emotional well being.
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saskrider, have you worked in a unionized community and when did you leave holiday?
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Back in the good old days, the best RD I worked for, she managed communities by herself, it was a great plessure working under her guidence. And then came the changeover.......
as far as I know, not all canadian communities are unionized, couple years back, there where only 2 communities in western Canada I know of.
Holiday doesn't need a Union, it needs leaders and owners, RD's and RC's and so on that believe in, know and practice the late Bill Colsons HOLIDAY TOUCH. imo.
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You are all right on the lack of leadership and the knowledge to lead. Once upon a time I think most RD's were promoted through the ranks, they started out as managers and were promoted and had the knowledge of what the community went through. This was also when RD's had open sitdowns with the residents so they could address problems or even issues with the managers.
And the caring attitude of the managers and co's is what attracted the residents and their families to the communities; the family knew with us if anything came up we would let them know about it, esp if it were a serious matter. The family also knew they would be safe; we have spent many a time checking in on a missing resident. Now I think FIG wants the managers not to have that close family contact; just market and call as the main duties, even though they advertise on their website that managers take part in activities all the time, etc; how is this to be accomplished if you have to live on the phone every waking moment, they don't want you to take time to eat lunch in the diningroom. Then the forever conference calls that break up and ruin your day all the time; get ready for an outside home visit or professional visit, smack another conference call: an emergency call, etc, smack a conference call. FIG does not live in the real world, neither do their RD's; the original vision has been lost.
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I would love to hear from any manager and/or co-manager of any of the Canadian Holiday communities to know if they also are as abused as the US community managers seem to be. How does it all work in a union environment in Canada?
Anybody want to contribute on here?
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Yes, PLEASE! We could use your help and input.
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Such beastly employment practices thrive in a down economy. A company can continually abuse employees and be assured that there are thousands upon thousands of people who are unemployed and may ignore all of the commentary on this site. It seems that Canada's unemployment rate is so much lower than the US so perhaps they can't get away with it as much. That being said, the cancer starts at home office and radiates out so it stands to reason that Canada's operations are equally fraught with problems.
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Norovirus on the loose again: On the news tonight they are saying Norovirus has been hitting cruise lines, but also a school in Muscle Shoals, AL has been closed Thursday due to 300 students who did not show up for school. Plans are to fumigate the school this weekend and to reopen this coming Monday.
Keep safe everyone.
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While I believe Holiday stretches/stretched the truth to the VA in regards to what we truly provide, I have seen many a low income senior benefit from living in a Holiday community. At least they were eating 3 meals a day, could get to a doctor's appointment, and had the security that if they fell someone would find them in a timely manner.
However on the flip side, we have a community that now houses (in nice 2 bedroom cottages)3 ex-medical doctors that have hidden their monies so that they may reap the VA benefits. This is not why the VA put this program in place. Shame on them, shame on Holiday.
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I'm very glad that there is a program like VAA for needy Veterans who would really benefit from financial assistance to make their lives more comfortable. It's not really the program that is at issue. I believe it is the clear indication that Holiday Retirement has acted as if this is a cash cow that they may milk for all it's worth. In addition, the VAA seminar leads are often people who only get paid if they can sell financial services to potential residents. These services allow for the transfer of monies to vehicles that could help them qualify for the VAA benefits. When you have a veteran who has no assets to restructure, they are not as attractive to these consultants and may not get the much-needed help in filling out and completing the paperwork for successful approval.
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@Jackson:Isn't this just a shame that the Vets who need it the most can not get the needed help because there is nothing in it for the consultants. The VA A&A benefit is a Federally funded benefit and therefore no one can ask any any fee for the filing of this benefit.
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It is a shame. The program is set up in such a way that it's very hard to get approved, even if you qualify. If every "i" is not dotted and every "t" not crossed, they'll turn them down and then they can't reapply for a year. I wish there was a better way so that more of our Veterans can utilize this much-needed program.
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Do these seminar leads who are "financial services people" have ties to FIG? Are they putting the seniors' monies in FIG backed funds? That should be looked into. If so, then that's criminal - but I expect nothing more from FIG.
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@never..when they first started, I was told they were partnered with FIG. Nothing was said after that. Can't say for sure!
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@Aon. You you know the name of this group? It can easily be tracked to see if they are an FIG subsidiary company?
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As far as I can tell, they aren't actually part of FIG but financial services companies that have committed to sending a representative to do the VAA seminars. When the company says that they are "partnered", it's really just a way to lend credibility to the individual who is leading the seminar. They want the potential move in to use their services so they can make their money from the commission. The people coming to the seminar are "leads", nothing more, nothing less - leads for both Holiday and for the financial services company.
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HELLO FROM SUNNY CALI - Does anyone know anything about other companies - ie - Hawthorn or Resort Lifestyles Communities?????? What do the Holiday competitors do better??? Don't want to jump from the frying pan into the fire. LOL
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it is hard to find info on hawthorn, but from what ive read, it's the part of the former holiday company that was kept after the sale to fortress. it's basically identical in every aspect of the old holiday business model. i do hear that theyve kept somewhat of the holiday touch, and havent succumbed to the tactics fortress is using.
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Thank you - yes I too have heard that one of the sons formed a company after Holiday was sold. Maybe he is being more honorable to his father's vision.
In my opinion; IF management teams were properly trained and prepared, buildings maintained - the right relationships could be built in the community and with the people who come thru your doors. Then you get more move ins. If we had more time away from the so called marketing geniouses (sp) we could do the job. The constant calls and emails and stupid marketing ploys have cheapened the brand. Very embarassing when people come in with a post card with offers or events that you know nothing about - because corp bought a bogus list to target a mail out to. Making cuts at the mid to top level could save the company millions. But then so many many of you know the problems and possible solutions far better than I.
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The sons do have a company in honor of their Father. I have a friend, former Exec. Chef, working for them in Idaho and loves it!!
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Hawthorne Retirement Group was founded by Bart Colson, son of Bill Colson, the owner of Holiday Retirement until it was sold to FIG in 2007.
Many of the old Holiday employees, including many executives, now work for Hawthorne Retirement. At least their senior management is knowledgeable and experienced in the senior housing industry, which is more than I can say for the senior management at Holiday Retirement.
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"Willing cooperation produces enduring power, while forced cooperation ends in failure". Napoleon Hill
No civilization based upon the unjust treatment of its people has ever endured. A tyrant may force the cooperation of others for a time, but that power is never sustained. Only when people are accorded the respect they deserve do they willingly create and maintain successful organizations and societies. When you build a company or an organization based on fairness and justice for every member, you have built a power that will long endure. The best way to secure the commitment and unending cooperation of others is through the simple application of the Golden Rule. It is the most successful and long-lasting management theory ever developed. When you treat others as you would like to be treated were you in their situation, you will inspire loyalty and enthusiastic cooperation. Set high standards for yourself and others, treat them well, let them do their jobs, and they will perform miracles for you.
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In Feburary 2011, 7 couples took the three week training course in Burlington, Ontario, Canada - today only one couple is hanging in by a thread. 4 couples quit on their own accord, 2 were fired. The retention of managers and co-managers in this company tells the tale. Training in no way prepares you for the actual job - never a hint that you will spend your entire day on the phone calling people you just called the week before. You are not told about the 9 am email, the noon conference call, the 5 pm conference call. The Holiday Touch is a figment of someone's imagination, it does not exist. Our Regional Director repeatedly told us that the most important thing in the Holiday World was move-in's - not the happiness and well being of the residents who live in your community. The deals that were cut in the name of getting a move in are disgraceful, and insulting to the existing residents. Don't think they don't talk about their rent or the deal they got over dinner - they do. The sales techniques reek of desparation. The daily beatings about "Who are you going to move in today". Major crisis such as a death in the community or being short a server, cook, maintenance person, EC, bus driver could not take you out of the 'zone' ...no excuses. Not Christmas, not New Year's, not Sunday mornings or Saturday nights. This company is in a time warp, phone calls do not work, these are tactics that were tired in the 70's and Holiday is about 30+ years out of touch with today's successful marketing strategies. Then there are the CSL'S and RSL's who come to communities after one of training and take over. They are told they are in charge, never mind they do not know the building, the culture or likely even the city they are assigned to.
We basically wasted a year of our time, missed the birth of two grandchildren, missed almost every family gathering, and on our days off were so tired we could barely move.
We were the 6th couple out of 7 couples to quit, and believe me there is life after Holiday. Oh to be able to watch the 6 pm news, Oh to be able to go out for a coffee whenever you want, Oh to not have to harrass people on the phone daily....there is defiitely life after Holiday.
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I hear you. There is no REAL training being given on how to operate the community and take care of the residents. People are not clear on all that is involved in managing and it can suck the life out of you. NO it WILL suck the life out of you. It is so disheartening to be thought of as a disposable resource - they will just go find 7 more hopefulls...
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You are right and to boil it down, working for Holiday is pretty much the same as indentured servitude. They will use you up and throw you away.... that is unless you get fed up and leave first.
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Question, If a couple is hired and goes to training and after the training realizes NOPE this isn't for me, do they have to pay back the company for flights etc? Also, does anyone know the reason that the company does not give you information on where you will be located until you are in training? Thanks for any and all information on this subject.
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him. I've never heard of anyone having to pay holiday back for training. I don't think they know where they want to put you close. They have so many places. And they like to leave their options open. When I started would holiday. We weren't told where we were going until three days before we went. There were rumors that we were going to certain places and everyone was telling us where they thought we might be going. I think that's because so many co-managers leave and there are so many openings. But if you're thinking of working for this company think really hard. Be ready to move out in 72 hours. Be ready to work long hours. Not to have any time for your own family. And to work with managers that have no idea what they're doing. And just be prepared to be on the phone. Making lots and lots of calls. To seniors and their families. Who are not ready to move in yet. When I worked at holiday. I was told by the regional salesperson just move in them now.give them two months free before they even saw the place or we met the resident and if they don't move in. Then just move them out but we got the move-in. And if you still decide to work for holiday. Good luck. I hope I don't see one. This website in a year or so.
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It has been a very tring experience working for this company. While the love of these residents keep us going it is the disrespect of this company towards us that is drivg us out. the Job market is still tuff but we will find something soon.
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Sounds like what happened at holiday:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/opinion/why-i-am-leaving-goldman-sachs.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
Replace clients with residents and there you have it. Isn't someone at the top of FIG from Goldman?
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My husband and I left a community almost a year ago. We miss the residents and would love to be with them again. What we went through in during the time we were there was HELL. And it has left us with hurt, and unforgiveness ever since.
To those considering going into this, DONT...your life with be affected forever. You will always feel like less than what you were. I was a successful business woman before Holiday, but now feel like I was a nobody. A resident relations gentlemen who is no longer with Holiday told me that this company would break my spirit. IT DID!!!!
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@thedirtroad: Please do not let this experience get you down. The worst you can do to yourself is to take this humiliation to serious. Yes, you will miss the residents however as hard as it may sound, the residents will get over it and move on and start “loving” the new management team.
The current Holiday experience is not what it was before FIG got their hands on it. It really is not FIG fault either. The true problem is Jack Callison who allows the Regional Directors to do what they do best and that is to humiliate and abuse Managers and Co-Managers just so that they can earn their “bonuses”. Yes it is all about money and nothing about the residents and employees. These people have never managed any community and do all the jobs in a community so there ignorance is translated into mismanagement, abuse and humiliation.
As long as FIG keeps Jack Callison as CEO of Holiday Retirement, nothing will change and unfortunately the management teams and other employees in the communities will continue to be abused. So many management teams have felt the same before you and many of them will feel the same as time goes on.
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You are right. Jack is not a leader at all. I don't pertend to know the hotel business but yet they pertend to know the Independent Senior Retirement living. What a joke. They have a stock pile of ruined lives all in pursuit of the all mighty dollar. Jack has no clue what he is doing he treats us as just a means to an end. Most great companies understand that it is the people that provide the results so treating them with respect goes along way. Great Companies that treat their people good grow and have very low turn over. Not only that no mater what company I have looked at there is no company that has blog like this for people to vent and tell the truth of what is realy going on. This company ahs caused me some medical problems that I did not have before. I will miss the residents when we leave, but in the long run we have to take care of oursleves.
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I believe that Fortress is the root off all of this. They could easily fire Jack and get a better CEO, but they haven't. From my experience most of the senior leadership come in with good intentions but then end up having to bow to Fortresses demands to keep their jobs. Everything that is wrong with this company begins and ends with Fortress.
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Although I'm a big proponent of personal responsibility, I have to agree with you when you say your life will be affected forever. My wife, who was a successful retail manager before Holiday and an outstanding community manager while we were there, has refused to look for any job involving management or supervisory obligations. I have to admit also to being gun shy about applying to anything involving management. I hate to give them the credit, but they "broke" us. No matter how hard we try to move on and put our experiences with HRC behind us, there has been a lasting psychological effect. It may sound overly dramatic, (and that's not at all like either one of us) but it's as if Holiday raped our souls. Stole every ounce of caring and ambition we once had and left us empty shells. What we endured over our last 8 months of working with Holiday could only be described as torture. As the only managers in a 140 + unit building and having a real POS regional, we were pushed to the limits of human endurance. We couldn't just up and leave, we didn't have the money nor did we have family with the means to help us get out of there. Instead, we stayed until we both neared physical exhaustion and my wife teetered on the verge of a nervous breakdown. It's taken me a long time to admit it and I hate doing so but I fear that our time with Holiday has left a permanent mark. If we had jobs or could qualify for state aid, we'd both be in counseling.......as it is, we're living in limbo.
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@ 18...I am so very sorry to hear that. I did not work for HRC, but they have destroyed my life and my business on lies! I know how you feel. I get jobs, but nothing permanent...I feel so bad for those of you hurt worse by HRC!! Good luck!
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18monthsout: I too feel this way, I think we will be forever under the gun; if vets can have PTS and others, I believe this is what we also suffer from.
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Man! I have to hand it to you, your words are so true & fits right where my husband & I are at: OUR SOULS HAVE BEEN RAPED!!! This has been more than torture!!!! I wouldn't wish this experience on my worst enemy!!! And it's only going to get worse!!! I wish we could all STAND TOGETHER & BLOW THE Whistle ON HOLIDAY RETIREMENT & THE FRAUD THAT THEY ARE Committing AGAINST THE ELDERLY!! FORCING MANAGERS TO SELL ABOVE MARKET RATE IS NO DIFFERENT THAN STEALING AND DECEIVING THESE FOLKS. THIS IS Morally & Ethic WRONG AND GOES AGAINST ALL OF OUR VALUES THAT WE CARRY IN LIFE. FORCING OUT A 95 YEAR OLD BECAUSE THE RENT INCREASE IS TOO MUCH FOR THEM IS LIKE SENDING THEM TO THE GRAVE!!
Isn't THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT CAN DO SOMETHING? NOT ONLY TO SAVE THE LIVES OF OUR CHERISHED ELDERLY, BUT THE LIVES OF HARD WORKING MANAGERS THAT WORK THEIR SELVES TO THIS POINT OF HAVING HEALTH PROBLEMS AND MENTAL BREAK DOWNS?????
THE GUYS UP THE LADDER MAKE ALL OF THE BIG BUCKS, MANAGERS POUR THEIR LIVES INTO THIS JOB AND IT'S NEVER GOOD ENOUGH!!
THEY PAY US JUST ENOUGH TO KEEP US ALIVE BUT YET POOR ENOUGH TO FORCE YOU IN TO KEEPING YOUR POSITION. THEY PREY ON PROFESSIONALS WHO LOVE PEOPLE & HAVE HAD HARDSHIPS IN THEIR LIVES ONLY TO ADD MORE HARDSHIP AND DEVESTAION, WORSE THAN ANY TORNADO COULD CAUSE!!!! MAKING MANAGERS FEEL AS THOUGH ALL IS GONE & DESTROYED! Feeling Imprisoned BY HOLIDAY!!
THE GUYS MAKING ALL OF THE BIG BUCKS HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT A DAY IN THE LIFE AS A MANAGER LOOKS OR FEELS LIKE. WITH STAFF ISSUES, RESIDENT ISSUES, RESIDENT FAMILY MEMBERS CREATING ISSUES, DEALING WITH DEATH ----- NOT TO MENTION ALL OF THE ADMIN Responsibilities ---- AND THAT Doesn't INCLUDE MARKETING ---
WE HAVE MADE THE COMPANY BILLIONS IN OUR YEARS WITH HOLIDAY----
AND FOR WHAT?
PEACEABLE WORK ENVOIRNMENT? HR SAYS THAT EVERY EMPLOYEE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WORK IN A NON=PEACEABLE WORK Envoirnment???
WHAT ABOUT MANAGERS THAT TAKE ALL OF THE BLAME FOR ALL THAT GOES WRONG??
WHAT ABOUT WHEN MANAGERS ARE TALKED DOWN TO LIKE AN OLD DOG BY THEIR RD OR RSL'S????
PLEASE----IM BEGGING---IS THERE ANYONE WHO CAN FIGHT THIS GIANT DEMON?
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I have been reading these posts since I interviewed with Holiday and can only feel grateful that my wife and I were not selected. How can a company of this magnitude get away with this?
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They get away with this for now because unemployment is so high, there are going to be a lot of people who look at this job as an answer to their prayers but will find out it's a nightmare. Seniors are relatively powerless and don't have the stamina it takes to fight the injustices at their community. If their families get involved, who do they complain to. Revolving door management and no care whatsoever from head office.
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Coudn't agree more! Please listen and run! wish I had. Two years ago trained with 9 other couples. None of us are with Holiday Retirement today. And yes, HR and its psycho management came close to breaking my spirit. I know there are many who you could say suffer, bonafiably from PTSD. I know I am strong and will recover, but I will never be the same after suffering the saga of Golden Oaks.
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the fair labor standards act defines a work week as any 40 hours worked in a seven day period.The exemption clause which holiday uses to exclude its co - manager new hires from the flsa (fair labor standards act) requiring payment of overtime is that they pay them a salary of $500 a week.The fed. minnium is $455 a week in salary.The question is what defines a work week. Is it 40 hours or 7 days or both.It is common knowledge that new co managers are scheduled for 48 hours a week and actually work 96 hours with the 4 nights that they will be on night duty. The wage and hour division of the dept. of labor defines the workweek as all time during which an employee is required to be on the employers premises. At $500 a week for a 96 hour work week a new co manager is being paid $5.21 hr.A manager who works 84 and only draws the min. $500 a week is paid $5.95 an hour. It would seem that you should be atleast goaranteed the fed. minium wage or the state minium wage whichever is greater.I don't know if holiday is breaking any wage and earning laws but it would seem that they should be atleast willing to pay you minium wage. If Jack Callison is not aware that his managers work 84 hrs.a week and his comanagers work 96 hours would some one please forward this to him. Also if someone knows the answer to my question of what constitutes a work week.please reply . A call to your local federal labor office might be interesting .At least holiday should be up front with new hires on the actual wages they will be receiving and hours they will be working before they sell their homes and move across country to find themselves trapped in a job which might be difficult to leave . Holiday might find that they keep a few more of the new hires or they might find that they they don't have any at all.
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Anonymous: Also you have to remember that the housing and meals, utilities also count as part of the salary package. I guess the best way to figure what a person gets on this is to figure what the fair market value would be for a one bedroom small apartment for the managers and a little less room for the co's; then what the electric bill would be, water, sewage, trash pickup, and phone bill. Figure this for the year and split between the 2 people. Then figure a baseline of some sort for meals that are eaten and add to the figures. I think years ago per diem for food was around $21.00 per day for electrical journeymen on the road.
The fact that everyone has to be on duty and on call on their nights to close is why we do not have to pay taxes on these items out of our pocket. My brother and sister in-law 30 years ago managed a trailer park in Indiana, and their living space that was given to them was counted as part of their salary and had to be claimed as salary for IRS taxing. The office space was deducted (a tilt-out) They had to claim part of the phone, utilities, water and sewage and trash.
When you add all the other parts to the salary a person received, it does sound better. Still not saying we weren't under paid though considering the RD's who thought everyone was supposed to be on duty for events, etc, even on your day off; or working vacation days for the managers, etc.
Once upon a time we thought it was our mission to work somewhere like Holiday even if it meant loosing money in the long run. We worked, but it wasn't like a bunch of chickens with your head cutoff; you had control of your staff because the rules were the guide to go by, not whatcha' talkin' about, don't know nothin' about that; and residents were appreciated. Now it's just the ever lovin' dollar they want.
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You make some great points, but I do want to correct you on one thing and that is that Managers work as many hours as co's at least in our case. I work many times on my day offs to try to get move-ins. The reality is more like 60 hours worked unless there is e-calls. 96 hours would be 16 hours a day, I don't think so. While I agree that there is a serious problem with the pay we are paid we don't work 96 hours.
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Knowthefacts: You are right, you do not work all those hours, but you are required to be on the premises on call on the nights you close. And even though it wasn't a lot of money that is why the housing is not taxed as salary, even though as stated by Anonymous, it was really a whole lot less than fairmarket salary for what is done everyday by managers and co-managers and for the experience they have. Frankly I believe that at least $22.00 an hour should be paid, plus housing, but don't reckon that will happen anytime soon since they are paying less now than a year ago.
Even though I wouldn't want to make an everyday even out of it, we too did meet with prospective residents on our own time as needed to get a move-in esp if it was someone you had started to work with, this always worked out better to keep the ties connected.
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Good point. This is something co-managers often do not realize or acknowledge--managers work as many hours as the co's, usually much more. Managers get calls, are buying items for the building, solving problems, etc. on their days' off. Rarely have we had a full day off without something coming up from work. Many times they don't even mention to the co-managers about the work they did on their time off, so the co's may be totally unaware. Managers also take more of the heat for what happens in the building, so if co's think they are getting a lot of pressure, add to that to the managers. Until someone has actually been a manager, they cannot speak for the pressure that the managers are under.
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Dear Nightmare World: A lot of things sound good on paper, but when you examine the facts and the realities of the job the benefits diminish greatly. Let's take for instance the salary issue of a new hire co-mgr. In my statement it is clear that Holiday's $500/week breaks down to $5.21/hr for a 96 hr work week. Look at this in the reality of what Holiday should be paying an employee who puts in a mandatory 96 hr work week. Assumne that a minimum wage of $7/hr would have to be paid for any employment in the US. I am not aware of a lower number for minimum wage. At $7/hr for 40 hrs the employee would be paid $280/per person per week. For the additional 56 hrs worked (considered as overtime on any other job) in most states with a base rate of $7/hr, overtime would be time and a half($10.50). That equals $588.00. Add this to the standard time and that would be a gross weekly pay of $868.00 per week. At 52 weeks we have gross wages of $45,760 X 2 people would be a new hire wage of $91,520.00 annual for the couple. Now granted I do not know anyone who would knowingly accept a new management job requiring them to work 96 hours a week for $7.00 per hour. Evidently Holiday is having no problem finding new hires for $5.21/hr staight time. I just wonder if they are being told the truth about the job they are accepting.
Now I will address the benefits of the apartment, food and utilities which has been put forth as a compensation for the lower wage. The current $500/week ($26,000 annual x 2 = $52,000) when subtracted from the $91,520.00 annual salary in the real world at a minimum wage of $7/hr leaves a figure of $39,520.00. I don't believe under any stretch of the imagination that the food, apartment, and utilities are worth (figured at $7/hr)$3,293.33/month! As a former live in manager I can tell you that the lack of privacy made it not feel like it was our home(Co-mgrs calling in for emergencies, etc., residents knocking on our door if unhappy about anything, phone ringing over if Co-mgrs on an e-call, etc). The food cost that people are fed is $3.65/per person per day. We usually fixed our own food for most meals due to the bland and over cooked nature of the Community food. We also tried to leave most days off if we could to go to the beach, mountains, motel, casino, etc. just to be mentally away from work. If we stayed in our apt on days off, we just tried to sleep and do laundry, rest enough to start another 84 hour stress filled week (this meant we kept curtains closed, unplugged phone, and didn't answer the door or venture out of apt). We could not venture out of our apatment on days off for fear of being sucked into the day-to-day issues of the Community. Since leaving Holiday and living again in the real world, our health is returning, and we no longer find the need to go out and spend $500 a week end just to get-way from our job.
We too felt it was a mission, under old Holiday, but FIG just cares about the money, not people.
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Anonymous: The $500.00 a week is a lot less than what we were making last year, and no I would not work for that amount now. I don't know if they figure they will get a lot of move-in bonus money or not: but you and I know that may not happen too soon, esp with the rates that are being charged. And I agree it is not a great salary in anyway, but we did enjoy being able to run and take care of the community and residents, it was not just numbers on a paper like it is to corporate, it was making sure they were being looked out for and taken care of in a safe community.
When we came back in 2009 and were transferred to another community in 2010, I never thought the living conditions would get worse: the apartment did not even have a stove in it. I use my microwave mostly and we got a good convection-toaster oven to use. But we would also take leftovers if there was something that was decent to eat as a warm-up; we were not going to spend anymore out of pocket money than necessary. I know the plush apartment that they advertise does not come through, and I am afraid that because of the economy a lot of people are sucked in now. Until we returned, I did not even know the phones rolled over to the off duty manager if the duty manager did not answer it fast enough. The only time I considered being on duty when off really was if the fire alarms went off as in the old days when everyone was responsible for a duty, if you're woke up with it going off you might as well get up anyway.
Unfortunately the residents did know where we lived; they were good not to bother us unless it was something really important, but we did stay out of the common areas unless doing laundry, our time was ours.
Unless it was something really big going on such as the Chef's convention, or dinners, etc, we figured we can handle the festivities on our days of work with no help, therefore the managers could have their day off even though I know a lot of times they took care of odd ball things that needed to be done. This way we all had our days off pretty much, that was before the crazy RD's thought everyone was supposed to be around whenever something went on, of course this same RD thought no one was supposed to be taking time off in the diningroom to eat either.
The problems were already being set in motion in 2006 I'm afraid.
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We have finally received our Right to Suit letter from EEOC. Others are now also getting their Right to Suit Letters. I wonder what will happen if 47 Federal lawsuits are filed against Holiday and Fortress. Bryan shingle will probably lost his Attorney License along with Scott Woods right behind him. Holiday thought they had the upper hand trying to lie their way out of their illegal acts and the walked right into the trap. I guess the 30 plus years as a bounty hunter has help me learn how the mind of liars and thieves work. I hope other employees and ex- employees also come on board and file formal affidavits with the US Attorney General Offices in Washington DC. Please make sure that you send it by certified mail.
I know that Holiday monitors this blog, but so does the Federals authorities!!!
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My wife and I recently resigned giving a 2 week notice with our last day working being Feb. 14, Valentines Day. We were sick and tired of the long hours (we worked 96 per week for 3 years and 8 months) and the micro-management by RD, the RSL and the VP of sales. On Feb. 13, we were commanded by the new "managers" that we had 24 hours to evacuate the premises and not talk to residents or staff, or even come into the commons area of the building and our final check would be there the following day. We were completely caught off guard and have been warned not to come by as they will call the police and have us removed. I had acquired a job with a landscaping company which does the site and they were told that if I show up on the premises they would be in jeopardy of losing their contract so I had to quit. According to Mr. Shenkel, my wife and I were not fired; however, it sure appears to us that we were based on the treatment we received. We would love to be in any type of lawsuit against this corp. because of the long work hours and the way they treat their managers and staff. As a result of the way that we were treated on the last day they have had 12 move-outs in the past 6 weeks. We have been researching how to take legal action against this corp. and were already aware that there are unfair wages paid for hours worked and we (as well as others in our immediate area) are very interested in participating in a Federal lawsuit. Thanks so those of you who have been working on this for a while - we are still stinging from the treatment we received 6 weeks ago. Loved the residents - can't stand the corp! Please forward any info we need to begin to take action and receive a Right to suit letter from EEOC. Thanks!
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What facility did you leave? My wife and I applied for the co-manager positions in the North East regions. I'm really leary of this company after reading Glassdoor and being referred to this site. Are all regions managed the same way?
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Colo., and my understanding is that each RD manages differently; however, Fortress is pressing all of the buttons to make $$ so the higher ups are pushing for the same bottom line with little to no regards as to the operations and care of the residents and staff.
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Thanks for the info, that probably explains why there are so many jobs available in this poor job market.
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Northeast is the same. FIG doesn't care about residents once they move in, and still haven't learned that phone calls over and over are NOT the way to fill the buildings. Word of mouth is the best marketing tool Every resident has at least a few doctors,(we have 12) and not one of our docs would recommend Holiday, nor our local bank or stores, because they are the ones who hear the complaints of the residents. If you are prepared to spend your life on the phone, calling and recalling so called prospects, and when you aren't calling prospects you will be on conference calls; and prepared to ignore the residents, and take emergancy calls at all hours of the night, then perhaps this could be for you. I give Mr. Charles permission to give you my email address and I will be happy to give you a lot more information.
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So A,B or C didn't have the professionalism or balls to tell you that you had 12 hrs to leave they made the new managers do it? How SAD, how HOLIDAY!
I think I would have contacted Colorado's Fair Housing group.
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We were told in our first phone interview with the recruiter that the Mangager and Co_Manager duties were shared, so how does everyone end working so many hours and isn't that illegal? We were told the next process is an in-person interview.
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Smith: I hope you are not using your real name since corporate monitors this website and would most likely love to know who is on it for real.
I would go into the meeting if you make it in the next step and act like you don't know anything.
In most of the communities except for some of the larger ones who have more sets of co-s, this is how the hours are usually set. Managers open and close Sunday and Monday, somewhere around 7:30 am to 7:30-8pm. They open Tues and get off at around 3:30pm and come back in at 11:30am to close Wednesday. They open Thursday and get off at 3;30pm, they are off then, Friday and Saturday till open Sunday morning. On the nights you close and the long days you are on call for the E-call or any other emergencies,etc.
Co-s days off are from 6:30 Sunday till Tuesday at 11:30am. Hours are Tues 11:30 till close, open Wed till 3:30pm, Thursday till close, Fri and Sat open till close and also on duty with e-calls etc on your close nights.
This does not reflect any other odd ball events you might have to be there for on your hour days, or meetings that come up or things you may have to attend to.
If you are missing an employee for a shift such as a cook or server or dishwasher, you get to fill in for them and then take care of all your other duties. Housekeeping is about the only dept that can get by with just toilet paper and towels if the person is missing.
Good luck if you do get hired. Have extra money to move on their 24hr get out notice. Budget rent a truck is cheaper if you rent over the internet. Don't take everything you own. And don't expect the plush apartment either, they are a joke, our apartment didn't even have a stove; I luckily use my microwave more than anything, even at home and we got a good convection, toaster oven to use also. Take leftovers home if there is something you like so as to keep your grocery bill down on your evening off and your days off. You can of course eat in the diningroom if you like, you will be served according to where you sit and which end of the room they start on so it will take at least 35-45 minutes totally; and do not expect to have meals delivered to your apartment like some have.
Good luck, and remember somedays you are working with adults and other days they maybe 2 going on 15, be fair and consistent and love them.
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Thanks for the information, I doubt we would accept anything at this point, of course we have not been contacted anyway, only spoke with a recruiter on the phone.
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I'm in 110% and would do whatever it took to make sure all of the poor souls who have been treated so wrong by this company receive fair compensation!!
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To Knowthefacts: The facts are according to the FLSA, i.e. Garcia vs. San Antonio 1985 decision, the court has determined that anytime a person is required by the employer to be on the premises of your job, the time will be counted as work time. And anytime you perform tasks, which benefit your employer, that time shall be counted as work time. It is the Administrative Exemption Clause that Holiday uses to ignore these laws. That exemption allows them to pay you a salary of no less than $455/week...work week. But the Dept of Labor Wage & Hour Div. defines a work week as any 7 day period in which you work 40 hours. Again, my question is "what constitutes a work week?" 40 accrued hours or 7 days? As a Co-Mgr you work 3 eight hour shifts and 2 twelve hour shifts as your regular schedule. You also take night call 4 nights a week at which time you cannot leave your place of employment and you are required all of the duties as listed on Holiday Retirement's Home page as "live in managers". Do you now understand how Co-Managers work 96 hours a week? That same formula also applies to the Managers except they only close and take night duty 3 nights a week, thus only working 84 (48 + 36) hours a week.
Now to Charles Davis, please explain your comment about the EEOC federal lawsuit. Is this something we can be a part of? If you do not want to answer on the blog, please provide a contact source to DL Charles for him to forward it to us.
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Sure looks like the noose is tightening up. I'm not able to participate in this action (wasn't a manager) but all the best to everyone. They've refused to address their horrible employment practices so maybe this will make them start treating their employees like human beings.
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A "Right to Sue" letter can be easily misunderstood. Here is a brief overview at: http://www.employmentlawfirms.com/resources/employment/employee-rights/right-sue-letter-eeoc.htm
It does not even mean your complaint was actually investigated at all, or that the EEOC found any wrongdoing by a company. Type "EEOC right to sue letter" into your search engine and read the various information. You will note that you better already have a lawyer working for you in order to make the 90 day limitation to file (some exceptions apply here).
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what is the suit Charles Davis is talking about.
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The one person I knew who filed a discrimination lawsuit because of the things said to her by the new management staff was recently not pursued by the EEOC because they said they lacked the funding to go through with it in her state. I thought she had a great chance to win.
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Well we finally did it and left the company. It is heart breaking to leave the residents and staff. We had to make a tuff decision and move on. The leadership of the company is a joke and plain and simple don't care. They are unethical and all they care about is move ins and nothing else. the stress was just too much. We can't wait to get back to our life.
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We applied as co-managers for east coast, is the management the same for different regions?
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It is. If you've read this blog, and the reviews on Glass Door, you should heed the warning and run as far away from Holiday/FIG as you can; this blog is the truth. So, if after reading and researching you still go forward with this, then it's on you. Don't say you weren't warned.
BTW, Holiday can't even recruit new workers because their brand is so tarnished. I understand they are now placing blind ads with a third party recruiter on Working Couples.com. Look at the wording of the third party ad - do you know any other company that boasts about "chef-prepared meals?"
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I think my wife found the job posting on Indeed.com, not really sure, we were contacted by a recruiter, but the follow up has not gone well.
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Oh yes I have seen those ads - don't forget the "Gracious Retirement Lifestyle" It is a dead give away. That must be what I have been seeing in the dining rooms lately. Shirt tails hanging out, sleeves rolled up, no top button buttoned. They don't even clean the entire table anymore, if one person sets there, they only clean that space, don't wipe don't the chairs, on and on. What the hell has happened to this company??? That is what happens from 2 weeks training then being sent out to a community, to in turn be trained by the other set of managers who got the same kind of training. It is akin to inbreeding!!! The only thing that is important is sales sales sales. Thought being out west would be better - not so much...
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Linny
We were there for about 3 days and not once did I see a housekeeper even vacuum the front lobby area; I finally cleaned up some dead leaves under a display that had blown in at sometime.
There were always reasons for things to be done the way they were and now I doubt very much if they are even taught why in there 2 week crash course.
I really would never have thought I would have heard how bad some of the kitchens were until things being posted on here. The old regional chefs were terrors and that included even maintenance coming through; they would report things also if there was something not right or in shabby condition. I think everyone worked with more pride back then also, that they could have a beautiful place where they had great residents. I believe the "Gracious Retirement Living" was solely property of the Colson's and when the property was sold, it was not usuable for the new owners. I'm sure Colson must see what has become of his dream.
Now you have underlings who have more seniority than anyone else and they run the roost.
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Smith: I hate that Holiday has taken this nosedive in the way they treat their employees. There is not enough pay in the world to have to worry each and every day if this is the day I get fired.
We loved working with the seniors and made a whole lot of friends from the residents and the families. At one time it was a way to live, genteel and respected, but not now. It was far easier to rent apartments when you had happy residents. It was worth going the extra mile to rent to new prospects because they were buying into a lifestyle and managers and co's who truly worried about their welfare. Now upper management is only wanting to get people in by any trick they can, then when they can't afford the rent, get them out and start all over again. They do not want people who have lived there 11 yrs or 17 yrs as in the past.
The training they now give is in my opinion not ethical for the job requirements, used to be they only promoted from within in the company and only after you had been there for at least a year, that way you would know the ropes.
It would be a good job if......
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Nightmareworld: Thank you and everyone else for the insight into this company, we only have gone as far as a phone interview, but were told we were strong candidates because of our sales background. They most likely have moved on, it's been awhile, seems like from the Glassdoor postings, that if they are interested they move pretty fast to get you in.
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Smith: You may be right if they haven't contacted you again. It seems like if sales were something you had a strong point in, then they would jump on it. Who knows though, maybe they had a sales team in place. But it may have been your lucky day not to be called back. It doesn't sound like it is really easy to get them to give you a call back or any info if they don't hire you.
Hope you find something you like. We loved it in the old days, but the stress of all the constant having to call people, not knowing if you were going to be fired everyday is not the way to live. The game plan is good if implemented, but not anymore.
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nightmareworld: The communication has been very poor which I imagine is a great indicator of how poorly run this company is. They give you the impression that you are a strong candidates, than nothing.
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Smith: That seems to be the m/o which really surprised me when I read of it in past posts here. I don't think it was that bad in 2005 or in 2009 when we came back, but it was really being taken care of by the old hands that were still on the job then who I think mostly have been replaced now.
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We were in Portland this weekend and heard a rumor that Doug and Kim ( managers of Gresham Manor ) were recently fired. Any confirmations on this.
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it's so sad. To see all of the people on this website. They're having a hard time finding a job after holiday. When I started at holiday with my husband. We just closed our business. And now that I think about it. I think I would've been to the years ahead. At a different company. And my big mistake was working at holiday. I think we would do from the start. When Andrew white. From corporate office. Walked in on our first day on the job in training. And I said to my husband. There's something funny about him being here. He was there for a whole week. And he took a lot of time away. Having our manager. Go over things in the sales office. So we were left alone to read the books. And that's how it all started. And then this Andrew white. Through our regional manager under the bus. If I knew what I knew now. We should have run as fast as we could away from holiday at that time. We were then sent to our first building. Where within two weeks. Our managers moved on. And then a phone call came in one evening. And these managers from the South told first that they were coming to our building. Then the managers that we were trained with were let go. And then the managers from hell arrived. We was three hours away from our family. And made to feel like we were stupid and very under trained and the lady manager decided that she needed to treat me like a kid. Well anyway. We finally got out of there. And we worked in a lovely community. With great managers. Only for them to get let go by our regional manager who had no soul. His name is Scott Eliscu. He no longer works for holiday that's really so sad, ha ha. They hired some new managers. They were co-managers. To help us. And then another set of co-managers. Who was supposed to be trainees for a floating position. but now I know they were hired to replace us. We were lied to by Scott made to feel like we could not do the job. That the new managers who came down from Maine were better than we were after only three weeks of training and everyone in the building. Was to spy on us. All Scott was looking for was a reason to get rid of us. We were let go. Because of lies. And things that never happened. It was at the end of February. It was snowing and icy. We had 72 hours to get out of our apartment with two dogs and a cat. If anybody looks at this website and thinks that they should get a job at holiday. Don't run as fast as you can. It's not worth it. It would be better to go in with the family. If you have no job than to live at holiday. Because you don't live at holiday get abused at holiday. I don't know how some of the people. That worked above me. And are still there. Sleep that night. I feel good about myself now. And I'm glad I didn't sign anything. When I left holiday. And I can sleep very well at night. I hope to hear more stories. That are positive. When people leave holiday. I don't think anything Scott a change at holiday for a while. As long as there are not that many jobs out there.
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All I can say is WOW to these posts. I guess we will not be finding out how bad it really is because we have not heard back yet. We applied for the NE region too. We both have taken positions with different companies from our former occupations in the Hospitality sales business, going to Florida.
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xchelmsford: I talked to Andrew White one time when he was filling in in the main office before he went back to Canada. We were going to a meeting that met once a month for caregivers, communities, health professionals, etc. He thought "Oh boy", people to get in for a tour and move-ins. I don't really know what he really thought when I told him no, these weren't going to be moving in, just hopefully referring others to move-in if they had a candidate they ran across.
I wonder who these managers from hell were. We had a set that came in and acted all goody, goody, just floaters, etc. Showed the wife the new paperwork that had been started since they had last worked at Holiday, etc, and then got stabbed in the back. Transferred to a different property which was ok with us except for leaving our residents. The next property had the inflated ego wife from hell who for what ever reason, don't know if enough of the employees complained or the residents, but they were gone in a hurry.
Then the next set of managers were sent in who had no clue really on any of the paperwork, tried to make up more paperwork of their own to use and cowtow to the RD to the extent of harassing me about overtime some of the employees had on Kronos, wanting it fixed or disappeared. I don't know where they got some of these clowns from, but they needed to go back and go over things that are illegal.
And the ants go marching on.
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the names of the managers that we worked with in Lenox, Mass. They came from Georgia, was David and Jan Troy. I don't think there working for holiday anymore, but they were managers from hell made my life miserable. While I worked with them thought that they were the best managers in the world. The female manager ruled by fear of losing your job would yell at everybody that they were making more work for her. And because of the way they why are they became a training center, which made my life even more of a hell. Because they thought that they were the best`. I could go on and on about all of the things that they did to me in my husband. But that's over with. Everybody gets what they deserve. What comes around goes around. Besides meeting Andrew white. We also met Scott wood he came to our building when we were in Lenox, Mass. the whole team. And that's when they managers from hell found out that everybody could see right through them and that we did not get along. And they were told to fix it. They'll he fixed it by making my life worse. And I was the never never never call Scott to complain. Cause he was on their side and we needed to learn how to do things right. Even though I was the best on, You've got leads. But like I said I just want to hear of all the good things that happened to people after they leave holiday. When I meet someone. Or talk to someone. I tell them to stay away from holiday for their parents. I would never ever have any of my seniors that I know go to holiday because it's all about the money. The bonuses, the move -in maybe when somebody up top decides to not give bonuses on movie- in. and more on the profits and running a building correctly and efficiently. Things would improve for everyone but I don't think that can happen. It's just easier to move people out of the way.
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HOW LONG AGO WAS THIS???
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Smith "
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xchelmsord wrote: They were not the managers that we had, we had Tony and Paul. And we never complained either, but the original set had plenty of complaints about them which corporate took seriously at that time. What they pulled on you was downright terrible, it is another example of people trying to run things who had no clue and putting egotistical maniacs in as managers. In our case they would take all the credit for any move-ins as if they were the only ones working with prospects. I hear that they want to get back in with the company again.
I agree that it is not the place for anyone to move to now. The rent rates go up too high every year, it used to be that if they $25.00 to $35.00 a month; this was hard enough for some of the residents who were on a fixed income. Then fast forward to Fortress and the rates go up $125.00 plus.
When we left he residents who were there were the best advertisement, there have been a lot of move outs over this and needless to say they warn people also of what is going on. When a community has eight or more sets of managers in a 3 yr period, they are highly upset about it, there security and faith in the building is broken. Fortress thinks it is just a motel business and will never understand this is not what keeps the building in business.
We had good days and bad days there but working under managers from hell is not good at all. There was too much back biting and favoritism that shouldn't have been going on, something going on in the kitchen they would run to them about it and they would override what the head chef said.
But the Lord knew I guess that it was time that we should be gone. My daughter needed help after having her twins 2 mo early, and then several months later she had to have surgery. With 4 kids total we both have our hands full.
My husband is on the road driving semi's
and I would probably join him once again, except that he almost has to drive as a team to make any money.
It has been good being home and now that the weather is warm I am planning on working more on the yard as I can and get it fixed again some, lot of stuff has been let go for the past 7 yrs I am afraid.
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WE MET TONI AND PAUL - THEY SEEMED OK - HEARD THAT THEY GOT A GIG IN HAWAII. SAME THING HAPPENED WITH ANOTHER COUPLE WE WERE UNDER. THEY DUMP ON EVERYONE THEN THE COMPANY REWARDS THEM. I JUST DON'T GET IT. SORT OF LOOKING FORWARD TO ONLY HAVING ABOUT 4 MONTHS LEFT ON THE WEST COAST. CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHO IS THE BEST RD THE COMPANY HAS NOW? I NEED SOME SANITY.
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Anonymous 2: You are right that managers put in more hours, esp on their days off just because it is hard to fit in everything that has to be done, including all the confounded conference calls that take up precious time. A lot of the inequality of time spent shopping is because of corporate not entrusting the co's with P-cards anymore and in some cases managers will not send in petty cash like they should so therefore the kitty is always broke. I know there are many who most likely misused the cards in the past; but it looks like they could monitor that through the budget and items bought. Managers have to do the competition reports with pricing and any size info, etc. We have gone to business meetings on our own time as had the managers just because it was easier that way.
There used to be a job description for the managers and the co's as to what job duties each were to be responsible for, I don't think it is even followed anymore with all the changes in management. With this plan you had one person who did payroll, one for A/P, one did A/R, and then maintenance. Each could fill in for the other person if need be, but it helped divide the load of paperwork.
I just do not like a managers who takes credit for everything, is abusive to employees, keeps everyone in the dark as to what is going on (that fear factor I think). There have been a lot of good managers, floaters and co's we have worked with, but the devious ones are the ones who will cut your throat to their own ends.
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kanelover: I have never heard either if you have to pay the flight to the training center if you decide to not stay, I think they would just cut their loss like any other type program that didn't work in other markets: You would have to find or pay or own way home though.
I don't know how true this is now, but they use to not want to have you very many hours away from your home area, but they now is most likely is not the same. I know one set was sent from FL to LA, a long way from home.
Do read as much as you can of this blog, it reflects what has gone on in HRC, they would rather stick you in the back and do try to give you 72 hrs to get out, in our case we couldn't stay longer than that because of a different job and having to resettle again. Do have extra money set aside just in case.
Good Luck.
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I use to work for Holiday when the Colson's ran the operation and it was a first class business and I was very proud to be a part of Holiday. Eveyone had a job to do and everyone did their job. From what I have seen of the company in recent years, it has become a Slap Dash operation being held together by threads. I understand that everyone has a lot more on their managerial plates now and that's a shame. I've been in a few of the communities and there seems to be an utter lack of pride in these communities, in regard to the upkeep and appearance of the buildings. Hopefully, someone will come along and recapture the vision of Bill Colson for Holiday. Managers are under tremendous pressure of running these communities without the extra burden of endless marketing and the snipping of the clueless co-managers. So good luck and prosper to all the current Holiday managers.
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with the added list of duties how can a manager find time to tweak the building anymore?
Also, in our building their was no room in the budget for anything extra.
Our furniture was worn out! During the last 10 years and numerous residents and 20+ managers that came and went we were told that furniture and pictures were taken. None of our RD's would let us buy any new furniture unless it was for a model Apt.
Do you believe in a community 10 years old their was "0" model furniture left?
The halls didn't have the elegant tables and chairs I had seen in other communities either, but we couldn't replace them. We were told to wait for the remodel HA! tRY TO MOVE IN NEW RESIDENTS when the building looks so shabby! What a challenge! and embarrassing too!
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The training EC in the Phoenix region asked an obviously gay man applying for the EC position at Vista de la Montana if he was gay, because, as she put it "we've had some troubles with gay managers here before..."
So that should cause some drama around here for awhile
I'll keep you posted.
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That's pretty much illegal. I swear it would be in someones best interest to have their smart phone in pocket and record this stuff. Not all states require knowledge of both parties.
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Jojo: that sounds like a great start for the EC, that is if he was hired.
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If this true, and Human Capital, after reading this keeps this TRAINING EC they should not be surprised when they are contacted by an attorney. Just how stupid can one EC be?
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You can record in Nevada now.
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We have been floating for years now and we have witnessed it all. The Holiday touch is now the Holiday push. Making tour calls is #1, and everything else is secondary including the current residents. Holiday had processes; in the kitchen, in the office, in housekeeping, etc. Now each building we enter is ran however the newbie manager sees fit. The newbie managers have been trained by folks that have never been in the job and are basically clueless, and then you have newbie managers teaching newbie co's it is a MESS and it reflects in each building we enter.
Micro management runs this company, when will someone listen we are Holiday Retirement not Holiday Inn.
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As you can tell I am becoming frustrated. How many communities are doing an Easter Buffet today? That use to be the norm when we had the "touch". The building we just left is having a normal meal, yes they are having Ham but beyond that ... nothing different. You want me to market your building, then please give me SOMETHING to invite a potential resident to. How, how sad!
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The Easter buffets are among my fondest memories as a Holiday manager. Calling it a "marketing event", we'd throw the doors open to the public and families of residents, charging 5 dollars a plate for an all you could eat brunch. We would run them from 10 to 2 with open seating and the food........ah the food. It was an event everyone in the building looked forward to, including the staff. It became a true family affair for all involved. Many of the residents would invite their entire family and they'd remark that it was "like the old days" of family dinners but without the dirty dishes to deal with after. Too bad the employees and residents of the current Holiday will never know the joy an event like that could bring.......Or the benefits of having a perspective resident attend an event like this and ask "How soon can I move in?". Not because you've pressured them into a sale or bamboozled them with numbers but because they've seen something they like and want to call a place like that home.
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Happy Easter to all and, especially, to DL!!!!
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My apologies to anyone experiencing difficulties typing in the required words to submit a comment. I contacted GoDaddy and was informed it is to prevent spam. Perhaps setting up a standard "forum" would work better. I'll check on it.
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I agree with all of this i was fired because a manger thought i gave them a dirty look somebody needs to help this company before some of there mangers run it down in the ground
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We are x-Holiday Managers, thought we would work for Holiday until we retired, BUT...along came the RD from Hell who was x-hotel management to flex his muscles...on our Communities. Like all the rest of you have said, these guys have NO idea nor do they CARE about seniors/residents. My husband and I were sent more than 1 set of co's that were younger and trying to prove they could DO IT BETTER. Of course the goal is for them to get their own building someday.....WHY do they come in and attack you and the peaceful building you are in? Is this what they learn in training?
We made the mistake of being to nice to them, in turn they threw us under the bus over and over again!!! This just makes it difficult to work as a TEAM!.
In my opinion I think it was a set up. Masterminded by our district Manager or higher to get younger folks into management of buildings. I'm pretty certain this is the goal, BUT what happens when the economy turns around and these overachievers can find a better paying job elsewhere and not live under house arrest in a community?
OH, thats right I almost forgot, they don't tolerate abuse either....so they leave too! I have left out detail, but I have some real verbal abuse stories that I'm sure would amuse you all.
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Let me tell you about someone that works in the Midwest district. She used to be a waitress and after 6 months she is a RSL. She is in her twenty's and has never lead nothing. She is so bad that she only says what she is told to say becasue she does not what she is doing. Two buildings were having a Norvirous and all she cared about was why they weren't making calls or had any tours scheduled. She is so bad that when she is asked a question she says well I will have to talk to the RD about that. She is the result of the poor leadership that exsist in this company and the ufortunately when she goes to another company she will be ate alive because she is being lead to believe that she knows what she is doing but she does not. I would not even hire her to be a server. People who should be promoted are not and people who should not be promoted are.
POOR LEADERSHIP PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
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here is a similar story, with young people in charge. It was a couple in their W's. That trained for six weeks and Devonshire's. then went to white Oaks. As co-managers. Only to be promoted to the managers for their good works. I don't know what was, but Scott Eliscu thought that they were wonderful. That first winter, we had a lot of snow and ice in the Northeast. And being that there were so many new managers with as little as three week training. This young couple did not know the rules about cleaning off residence cars. There was a 94-year-old resident. He didn't really drive anymore. But he liked having his car. He took care of it. After dinner one night. because the new managers didn't have the maintenance guy clean off the residence cars because they thought it was her responsibility of the residents and more questioning what they were supposed to do?this resident went out to clean off his car and never came back. Apparently he had fallen behind the snowbank by his car on the ice and couldn't get up. No one heard him all night long. They found him in the morning. Apparently he put up a good fight. I heard there was blood all over the place. But only having six weeks training for the managers. I don't think they were taught to check the building or have someone check the building I was trained in that building by the best managers in the region. They have gone from holiday. Now replaced by incompetent young managers. This was in the newspaper. But it was never mentioned on any conference calls. It was covered up. If only they were trained right and told to check the building every night and walk it outside just to make sure there was no one out there, or even if they would have noticed that she was not at supper. Maybe it would've given him a few more years, so sad. I wonder if there are similar stories out there that no one ever talks about.
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Xchelmsford: I ran across this article in the newspaper via internet sometime ago by accident and was really surprised that something like this could have happened, this was really a terrible event, I think it said he had gone out a back door. He must not have had his pendant on either.
We worked in the south so there was not any snow, sometimes we had ice and the sidewalks would have to be salted. I think our residents were more wary of driving in bad weather of any type.
We have spent a few hours trying to contact a new residents family at Christmas time after she was missing; it turned out she was with them luckily.
No matter what though, there is always a way to slip through the cracks when you have headstrong residents, not to mention the ones who have memory problems that were moved in and were apt to wander out the door. But I do agree, I don't think the new management are trained in the care of the elderly; we are more caretakers if nothing else.
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It was just a few short months ago I hung up my CSL persona and resigned my position with Holiday.
Overall, my health has improved, I'm sleeping very well, I find myself smiling for no reason at all most days and I'm at peace. Although my new job has some stress, it is not stress that comes from anxiety. It is more driven by excitement and momentum.
While I continue to miss the residents, their family members and fortunately for me...all the staff and managers (we were blessed with a well-rounded, "we get along" kind of staff), I know I made the right decision to leave a job where I felt myself questioning the professional and ethical practices of this company. My heart goes out to those who have to stay or must stay to keep food on their own tables. However, the really is light at the end of the tunnel. Wait, and the right job for you will come along and then you, too, will be able to walk away with your head up high.
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Former CSL here as well. So glad to be gone and yes, life is substantially better after Holiday. Leaving that position was the best thing I ever did for my mental and physical health. Congratulations to you for getting out and moving forward to a more positive place.
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Thanks Jackson. I suspect we are from the same region.
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I missed the residence when we left I felt bad because the RD did not care about the residence he was a good actor. I wish there was a way we could get to these couples that want to work for holiday because the economy is so bad and let them see how bad they won't mess up their lives just have a roof over their head. But I look at all of the knowledge that I got from you residence and put it to good use. I would never have my mother or anyone's mother or father live at holiday retirement community. Hopefully there are many more retirement communities that will open up and not be run by holiday. I wish there was a place to to go on the Internet and let everyone know how bad it is at holiday retirement. Like you've got leads a Place for mom , if you're looking to place your mom some place you can go to the website and rate all holiday retirement communities maybe someday they'll be a website maybe someone should start one.
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Well, we are just getting inducted into Holiday.
We have been interviewed by the recruiter and are now being scheduled for an interview this week.
We have run motels before so the 24/7 lifestyle doesn't bother us (we know what to expect) and the salary and benefits is much better than motel life.
Should we still be concerned? Or just say "what the heck" and go for it.
How bad can it really be compared to running a motel?
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Fred: My aunt and uncle ran a motel in Remington, IN many moons ago and this is not anything like that. My aunt and mom put on a spread as usual for Thanksgiving and had enough food for all the guests that were there that weekend.
Be prepared for never ending sales calls that you will both be making: constant conference calls at the most crazy times when you are busy doing something else.
You will also fill in for missing servers, cooks, and the dishwasher, which will leave the spouse handling the meal service by theirself.
If you can go back and read the posts on here it might help a little.
Just make sure you only take what can be easily moved on the spur of the moment if the ax hits.
If you will be a co-manager your day off will start Sunday at 6am and end at 11:30 am Tuesday.
Good luck.
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I am wondering if some of their policies have changed since some of these postings? (I have read all 6 pages of the posts).
Or maybe its a regional issue with some of the staff?
We have been offered for our belongings to be moved (their cost) hotel stays for the move (their cost) plus hotel stays and flights for the interview process (paid by them).
They are really seeming to be offering the world to get new people in.
No 90 day wait for benefits to start. They start from day one of hiring.
Two weeks paid training then a week (paid) allowed for moving to the location.
The schedule we have been given is very different from what others have stated. The first week we are off one full day, from 7.30pm Sunday night returning 7.30am Tuesday Morning.
The following week we are off from 7.30pm Thursday returning Sunday at 7.30am.
If you are the managers, then surely part of the job description is to fill in when other people are not available, of get replacements in quickly.
We are hired as co-managers but understand that there are no other permanent manager teams (of any kind) at the location we are heading to, just floating managers there at the present.
I guess it all boils down to expectations when you take the position.
We always go in to an opportunity with low expectations, then we aren't disappointed if things don't turn out well
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Fred: Go for it! It might be the perfect opportunity for you. You state you have read the entirety of this blog so you have a reasonable understanding of various potentials.
Once again let me remind that I am personally not against Holiday Retirement. I do not want them to implode. What I wish for is the esteemed Jack R. Callison Jr. to take a long look at himself and see what he has unleashed. Holiday Retirement can still turn it around and reclaim its position as a leader, but only if the human equation is prime again. Colson built the company using a solid business platform, but did not live to see his dream destroyed by hedge fund shareholders interested only in digitally manipulated profits - greed personified.
Fred, take the training, keep your head down and your mouth closed, smile a lot and bob your head in a supplicating manner when addressed by your superiors. Ask no questions for at least three months, which gives you time to acclimate and absorb. Tuck money away out of every paycheck for "walking money". Apply yourself as instructed, and forget anything you thought you may have learned from prior experiences. You just might someday head up the company yourself - who knows.
Good luck to you both - and I look forward to your comments in the next few months.
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Here is the long and short of it. Those two weeks of training you will receive consists of role playing and marketing. You will not be taught anything pertaining to how they process payroll, reconcile petty cash, process the accounts payable, collecting and documenting rent, giving residents rent increases or how to do what only comes naturally to a few people...be compassionate to those residents you serve.
They tell you that you will have a week to get relocated and moved. In the region I just left, often people were thrust immediately into a community without any time to get settled. They have very little time to acclimate and in some cases, are still titled "co's" but end up in a lead position because someone else has left or moved on. Imagine having none of the above mentioned training and being forced to run a community without that valuable and necessary information.
I caution you to once again think on what you've read here. As I've said before, I left on my own accord and after receiving the CSL of the quarter award. My personal value system was constantly at odds with what I was asked to do.
Also, don't forget that when you are on duty, you will have to answer those "e" calls throughout the night. Once jolted awake in the middle of the night and suddenly having your adrenalin (spelling?) pumping, it is nearly impossible to get back to sleep. So, that means while on duty during that next day, you are sleepworking.
One last thought. My career began in the hospitality industry. Retirement living is very different and requires a special kind of person to work with seniors.
Good luck no matter your decision.
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Just know that the training you get will NOT prepare you for the real job. If you are used to having no real life of your own, you may survive. Maybe your past experience will have prepared you - but the Holiday training will not. Long Long hours, constant monitoring and conference calls. Not enough time to really care for the residents and the building, staff and other issues. Night calls etc. Just hope and pray that you get a normal couple for managers. PRAY HARD!!!
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Fred: It sounds like they are getting desperate to attract new bodies, hence the different information about insurance (it was 6mo when we started) then they changed it to 3mo, now day one.
You are being given the managers schedule for days off it sounds like with one exception, they usually are off 3:30 pm Thursday not 7:30, so I am not sure about why the different time.
If there is no other manager teams, you will most likely end up needing to know all the processes of payroll, etc, since the floaters will most likely be teaching you some of this, and then according to if you get a new manager or not, who knows you maybe teaching them.
The comments made by others are all true, try supper making in 1 1/2 hrs after getting the call in and then trying to figure out what there is to cook and what can be filled in with. Not saying we didn't have fun just a lot of other things end up getting dropped in the process and corporate does not look at that, they have no clue what really goes on in the trenches.
Well good luck.
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Yes, I can confirm that we have been offered insurance benefits from day one of training.
We have also been told of the location where they want us, found out that there is only a floating manager couple there at the moment and its less than half occupied with residents.
We have also been told that ALL of the training may now have to be done on site with the floating managers.
We visited the location just to check it out and its in really bad shape, old abandoned cars in the parking lot. Looks like someone is even living in an RV in the parking lot !!!
Well-worn carpets in the lobby and looks like its in need of a thorough cleaning.
Certainly won't be moving our stuff there !!!!
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Oh boy, that doesn't sound good at all. Try getting anyone to do a major cleaning around there and see how futile that is.... unless you want to skip sleeping and break your back, have at it. Worn carpets? We couldn't even get approval to the our filthy ones cleaned, let alone replaced. Good for you for visiting, many management trainees don't know what community they are going to go to until they finish training and then it's pretty much too late. They won't acknowledge ANY of the problems that you outlined but you WILL be denigrated on a daily basis for not getting that census up regardless. Run while you can, it's just not worth it.
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Oh Fred, Fred, Fred. You sound just like me two years ago. How bad can it be??? I thought I was a tough person and I thought I was going in with my eyes wide open. After a very ridiculous hiring process where we just had to be determined because the RD (new to his job) never returned phone calls, never called when he said he would, a week of a recruiter (new to the company) being in town and supposedly going to call us for an interview and then we call her but she never called back. Then 4 weeks of HELL in the "new training program" that didn't have all of the kinks out yet, and then 3 weeks of on the job training, still not having a clue where we were going to be working. Should have been a clue!! I would never have dreamed it could have been as bad as it was and I AM A TOUGH PERSON!!!! You will rue the day you said the words "how bad can it be?" if you stay with this company the way they operate right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!
n
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Oh and last I knew it was illegal to offer a different deal for an employee on benefits as you offer others. But then Holiday Retirement thinks nothing of charging one resident $1,500 and another $3,000 for the same apartment!!! Fair Housing!!! That works in the hotel business not in the apt rental business. Again, it is illegal to offer someone for their insurance to start immediately but make other employees wait 3 mo's, 6 mo's etc. You see the RD's that they hire do not know what they are doing, are not given the time to do their job, etc. Am I ever glad I am not there but it has become my goal to let everyone know what Holiday Retirment is like be it potential residents, potential employees, you name it!!!!!!!!!!!
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Katrina: hope things get better for you, it is hard to get over the trauma and the abuse. Hope you are being able to stay afloat. We have grandkids to support and had a house to go back to, but it is keeping us broke with the job changes and there was no reason for this to have happened.
I never heard of changing the price of an apartment to a different price in the old days; I just wonder what VA Aid & Attend would think if they knew this was happening, price gouging maybe and defrauding the government, hum.
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Fred, Fred, Fred, can you honestly read this blog and ask the question "how bad can it be"?
Did you miss the posting that stated 9 couples started with Holiday and ALL have left?
You think you will be different because you worked in the motel business 24/7? That is just such a small part of the overall problem. Are you willing to be belittled on a constant basis? Are you willing to sell your soul and beliefs? Are you willing to take advantage of senior citizens? If so, TAKE THE JOB.
We will wait to hear your sad saga in a couple of months.
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Isn't that the truth! What everyone needs to understand is that this isn't a regional thing or specific to one RD or RSL, this is a cancer that starts at home office and radiates out to the communities.
It's not an isolated incidence and it's not someone having a bad day or being a whiner or whatever else they want to level at their weary employees. How ANYONE could read the entirety of this extensive blog and 1. think they are going to be different and 2. not run as far away as they possibly can, is completely and utterly beyond me.
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How can you compare working with seniors to a motel business???? Did you read this blog at ALL!!!!!!
You'll fit right in.
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What I was saying was that the hours worked is compared to running a motel where it is 24 hours a day for a couple.
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Wow! You must be a desperate man to even consider joining Holiday Retirement! YOU REALLY HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT YOU ARE GETTING YOURSELF INTO!!! Working 24/7 in the hotel industry doesn't even compare. How are you going to respond to a midnight ecall when a resident has fallen & bled out everywhere? How are you going to respond when a resident chews you out because there are no bananas for them because your Chef forgot to order them? How are you going to respond when your opening Cook or Chef calls you ate 5:00am & you will be the one who has to get breakfast prepared to 120 residents? How are you going to respond when a resident dies in your arms? How are you going to respond to your RD when you don't get to your 50 phone calls in a day? Buddy....if you have current jobs...stay with them....Don't quit your current position only to be placed in a living hell!!!!!!!
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I changed my nickname as what I am about to write some of the people on this would immediately know who I am but I can not allow Fred not to know this before he and his wife make that decision.
Fred,
Please explain to me what you and your wife would do if you are missing a resident for breakfast and than dinner. Now you know something is wrong because that resident is always having breakfast and dinner. So you go search for this resident and you contact the family to see if their loved one is spending time with them. They answer no. Then several hours later you find this resident........FROZEN TO DEATH behind a remote area of the building.
Several week later the family sues the company. You have to give a 9.5 hour deposition.
You loose approx. 60 lbs in weight inside 3 months.
True story as it happened to me.
This happened before FIG bought Holiday. I can not imagine what current management would have done.
Please I beg of you to reconsider your decision. I still today see the picture in my mind of what I saw that day.
I have left out a lot of details of this situation but it became a criminal investigation.
That;s all I am going to tell you because you feel that 2 weeks of training will arm you with everything you need to know about running a retirement community. Trust me, no one will ever prepare you for dealing with situations like this or death in general yet you are expected to handle it ALL.
I am sure you love your wife right now but she won't love you anymore after 4 weeks with Holiday.
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Thanks, We did read that story and it reminded me of a friend who was running a motel and a guest had murdered someone and stuffed their body into the space under the boxspring. The room was then re-rented a couple more times before the smell started raising concerns.
The family of the deceased person decided that the motel and manager were negligent in not checking under the boxspring, even though its not accessible (has a platform around it) and is only accessed for carpet cleanings every few months.
The person that finally noticed an odor also sued the property and manager.
The case is still in the courts.
Responding to your question though, its a terrible thing to find a dead person especially under those circumstances and I have dealt with many deaths from a previous line of work. It is never an easy thing to do, regardless of how much training you have been given.
However, it's not your fault that it happened but I understand the stress that it placed upon you and hope your health recovers and that you can move on from it.
Now, just to let you know that the interview has been brought forward a day and that the location where we are supposed to end up has been changed and the training is now going to be conducted on-site instead of one of the three centers. Apparently, two of the centers are without trainers.
The compensation package has also been changed with a new version supposed to be available at the interview. However, the recruiter suggested not to bring up compensation in the interview !!
Will keep you all posted
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if you still think of working for holiday after reading this blog. Remember it's a one-way ticket. The person who interviewed you is not the person who's.Does training I'm sure that they get bonus.On how many people they get to sign up and stayed for some time. If you can sell apartments to our seniors and get them to move-in . keep your building full. Remember that you working with the elderly . And if you go to a building that is 95% or more. At one time you made lose up to 10 residents by being too sick or they pass away. And your RD only thinks of the bonuses he will get. If you have 12 or more move-in a month. When I started with holiday I thought it was going to be different too I thought that we were going to make a difference. But there are managers out there who treat their co-manager like they're going to take their job away from them you can't trust anyone worked in the building because if they don't like you. They will help RD with any ammunition he needs to get rid of you.because there are so many couples who are looking for roof over their head right now it's easier get rid of you and replaced it with a couple to get move-in. Holiday is not your answer. It would be better if you look someplace else. There are other companies that have retirement communities that treat their employees much better than holiday you should check into that. Good luck. And yes, keep us posted.
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JoyToThePower: We had a resident who died going down the stairs from the diningroom that was located on the 3rd floor. He had been there at least 20-30 minutes before being found, I don't know if it would have mattered with the way he fell. No matter where you work there are occasions that arise that you have no control over; there is always the chance that a resident will leave the building and something may happen to them, this is anywhere in life. As a manager or co-manager you cannot foresee each and every element, esp when dealing with residents who have free will. You may have even checked the area and the next thing a resident decides to leave the building. I know the residents in a lot of occasions do not have the common sense to stay safe anymore, you remember the adage once an adult, twice a child.
Please do not beat yourself up over this event. I do not know what the outcome of the lawsuit turned out to be, but know that there is always unreasonable expectations by other people, esp when it comes to lawsuits. Some people expect us to be jailers and know the every movement that goes on. Holiday was Independent Living, therefore residents freewill dictated what they did, and I hate to say that a large part of the residents families could care less about if the resident was in the building or not, or they would call on their own.
Please forgive yourself for what happened, I know God knows that you cannot be everywhere wondering what 80 or more residents are doing every minute of the day. If the resident would have been in his right mind, esp with the fact that he did not drive anymore, he would not have been out there in the first place.
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I worked with patients a few years ago when a man fells down a flight of stairs and brokes his neck. It was horrible. His family was mad, but he always walked the stairs. His wife passed a few weeks later. Very sade thing.
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Anonymous: It is a sad fact that you cannot control the behavior of people; I imagine the gentleman thought he was helping his health by using the stairs. I wonder why the family was mad, did they think someone was going to keep him from walking up and down the stairs.
Our gentleman did not have children, only a nephew and this was something you would not have been able to stop him from doing. It is hard to convince a resident that maybe the stairs are not the best idea anymore, we had a lady also who was crimping over to one side and could tell you tales of when she was a kid and they walked everywhere, she was now in her 90's and still using the stairs; I expected anytime for someone to come and say they had found her in the stairwell, but so far she was still going.
It is amazing how husbands and wives die like that, I suppose from a broken heart. I heard one of our old residents who really had bad health had died and his wife died less than a month later; she was a twin and was more frail appearing than her sister, but I was really surprised to hear of her passing also. I guess they were both moved to a nursing home, one of the previous managers VA move-ins with whom the company had invested themselves with a VA rep who wanted to make money instead of worry about helping get the paperwork filled out and submitted. They were living for practically nothing for over 9mo, so I guess Holiday got what they deserved on this.
We had a lot of family members in some of the buildings who relied on us to let them know if something was going on with mom or dad, but there were an amazing amount who had the head-in-sand mentality, in some cases residents helped keep up with mom up to the point that they were getting tired of having to do so on a regular basis. We even had family members pop-up who we did not even know existed till that point. In the cases of a building with a good careservice in place we back then had the clout to have the family either place them on some sort of service or they would have to move them; in one case the lady just needed med help so she could control her narcolepsy and not scare the other residents in the diningroom or drop in the laundry room. Having a close working relationship with careservices makes a difference and even though they didn't work for us we would update each other on events, etc.; this worked so much better than the separate attitude.
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I have been thinking about the holiday situation for some time. I can attest to all of the content ( or most of it) of this blog to be absolutely true.But to be fair I would say that we had our share of "moron" co managers as well as "RDs".We have been ask many times how we lasted so long and I can only say that we just learned how to survive or maby we are just to dumb to quit! anyway getting back to the solution for Holiday Retirement.Holiday plays on a basic fear of senior citizens. The fear of change. I once had a senior vp of fig tell me that "we know exactly how much we can raise the rents and still retain 95% of our residents". I always thought that rents were raised to cover rising costs of operations!DAA Well this statement lets us in to the Achilles Heel of Holiday. If more than 5% of the residents were actually willing to move rather than pay a 7 or 8 or 10% increase you wolud see things change in a hurry.It is the market that will change Holiday not the Employees. In these hard times for those of us who are able or need to still work there will always be a Holiday Retirement to take advantage of the situtation.I know how to beat Holiday and will be willing to share it with anyone who asks but if you are not willing to move don't bother asking.You have more power than you know.In the mean time we will continue to adapt to the flavor of the month management style and survive until better times.
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I was laughing when I read the recent story about the RD in the Midwest with his new, young RSL freshly promoted. If Lee Young is still the Midwest RD then it makes perfect sense. From what other managers said he likes to "promote" and help the new, young, attractive women in the company. What a joke, what an ego! Guess things are still the same in the Midwest.
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I don't know why I persist on torturing myself by reading this blog...I'm so incredibly sick & sad about this situation but it's kinda like a car wreck I guess...I thought maybe it was just me, being a wimp, not being used to the big corporate world, greed, lying etc...but it's not me, it's real. It's hardcore evilness. Today, when the RD was informed that a resident had died his only comment was "when can you get someone in that unit?" I don't feel proud of my job. I'm ashamed that we lie, cheat and steal from senior citizens to get a paycheck. Ultimately my paycheck comes from them and I'm part of the pack of vultures...I can't sleep at night, I hate this company and all of the fakes & evil people who comprise it. It's like living in a nightmare. I so badly want to tell tours "run like hell, change your phone number & NEVER come back here." Ya, I'll quit, I'll give up if they don't get rid of me first but there literally are NO opportunities out there. I have to work and this puts the food on the table and $4 a gallon gas in the car. God...please have mercy.
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I'm sorry, that's the truth and your perspective is clearly due to still having to work for this horror of a company. When you find something different, you're whole perspective will change. Do whatever you can to get something new and say goodbye to this.
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This showed up in my google alert mail box:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/redlands-independent-assisted-living-facility-hit-with-lawsuit-for-inadequate-care-2012-04-19
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This is beyond sad and those of us who truly care about Seniors are outraged. Shame shame shame on Holiday.
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Well this will be very interesting to see how this law suit is going to work out. If this indeed will be heard in court and some sort of settlement is made, more suits will be filed in the rest of the country. This also could become a class-action suit on a nationwide level.
DL, all of us on this blog have been writing over and over again that things needed to change but FIG did not want to listen.
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Thanks, Jackson. I am glad to see that someone is stepping up to the plate. This could go nationwide, as Achmed said. I hope HRC and FIG, finally, have to answer for what they have been doing!!!!!
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Ok really folks just how dumb are these motel people? The other day I noted how much time I wasted with BOD, EOD, rally calls, noon calls, and 5p calls. Can RDs and RSLs not read? I just gave you the information you were looking for in a report and now you want me to waste another valuable 30 mins twice a day repeating myself.
The management sends out tips on Time Management do they read what is sent out?
Can you imagine if we had the housekeepers, kitchen staff, maintenance, etc. report to us, not only in writing but made them use their valuable time to tell us how many apartments they have cleaned or how many potatoes they have peeled? Nothing would ever get accomplished.
What about the time RDs and RSLs waste with these calls. It is apparent they have WAY TOO MUCH TIME on their hands.
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This was my experience as well. It did seem that the constant calls were never about motivation but rather desperation and the attempt to say, no matter what you do, it's never enough. The RD and RSL did nothing but interfere with the actual business of taking care of the community, keeping residents happy and working on getting move ins. I never, in my long career, wasted more time on conference calls than in this job. The first conference call in my job with a new company brought some scary PTSD type feelings and it was then I realized how bad it was.
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This was my experience as well. I'd just be getting my day started and would have a conference call. Then half way through the day....a conference call. At the end of the day...another conference call.
At once point, I didn't work weekends....and wouldn't you know, I was told to be on the weekend conference call to report. Report what? I wasn't working and thereby did not know what was happening at the community while I was away. When I complained about being forced to work on my scheduled days off, I was told "you're salary and that means you work whenever we tell you!" Salary does not mean you work every day all day. It means you work as many or as few hours in your given scheduled work week (our case Tues - Sat) that it takes to get the job done.
Now, lets talk about deceptive practices. We had a prospect who was very interested in moving to our community. She kept saying she wanted to move but her son was her POA and he wanted to review the financial situation first. My RD told me to take the contract and keys to this lady, get her to sign the contract, hand her the keys and at the very least, we'd get one month of rent out of her before her family got involved and put in a 30 day notice. As an advocate for seniors...I draw the line...in fact, I did just that and resigned within two months.
My final area of concern had to do with the Veterans. The Aid and Attendance benefit was a wonderful idea. However, given the rates charged at most Holiday communities, within a year those vets who either gave up a home or condo or apartment (sometimes in a hard to get into low income apartment), would be forced to leave. We had a lady who turned 101 years old. The VSP did not check the information on her application. With the deferment, she was so happy she was "pre-qualified" for the benefit and got to remain at the community. Unfortunately, she found out later the VSP failed to verify the dates of her husband's service. In the end, the resident did not receive the benefit. Eventually the rates were raised enough her family could no longer afford to pay the difference between what the rent was and what their mom could afford. So, she had to move. She died a few months later. How difficult would it have been to allow her to continue to reside there until she passed away. She was 101 for Pete's sake. Better to have some rent rather than deal with the empty units for months on end. I realize this is a business...but compassion can go a long way in building as well as sustaining a business.
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Hello, thank you for sharing this online. I've recently discovered your blog and will read your articles with care.
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"Probably the most egregious failure alleged in the complaint is the defendants' plan of increasing business profits at the expense of the residents," says Garcia. "The lawsuit alleges that it was the company's practice to under-staff the facility and that many of the staff that did exist were neither properly trained nor qualified to care for the elders whose lives they were entrusted with."
Garcia points to 66 employee reviews of Holiday Retirement (which includes Mission Commons), on the website Glassdoor. Over and over these reviews talk of under-staffing, staff not being adequately trained and working 50, 60, and even 90 hours a week. They detail a corporate culture dedicated to the bottom line rather than to resident services.
"Our parents and grandparents deserve so much better," says Garcia. "Reading these reviews gives one the impression that - as one employee says - the facility is operated as a used car lot, not as a place entrusted to care for those we love."
If your loved one has suffered elder abuse or nursing home neglect, contact elder abuse attorney Stephen M. Garcia at www.lawgarcia.com or at (800) 281-8515 for a free, no-obligation consultation.
Call or email...even though it's CA it will help bolster the case and may create a ripple effect...
SOURCE Garcia, Artigliere & Shadrack
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Everyone who has worked at Holiday Retirement PLEASE E-MAIL or CALL this attorney. This might be the way to break the abuse and neglect that all the residents from all 300 facilities daily. He might be able to make this a class action suit that we could finally get some national media and stop the injustice our elders endure daily. It starts at the top where management work so many hours they are ineffective to their residents safety. It used to be that you knew your residents that when they did not show up for meals you went looking for them until you found out they were ok or in their apt. needing your help or god forbid DEAD. If you worked for any lenght of time you witnessed this at least once. They now bring in staff that has not been trained and sometimes only 2 weeks on the job and they are made managers..And the FOOD this company should be shot for the garbage they feed the staff and residents. First off they hire CHEFS that can barely read the recipes than try and put them together. And with there budget the KITCHEN in every building is understaffed. The money thatis allotted per day per each resident is deplorable. And the servers they are illerate and have no compassion for the residents, and after day in and day out they get so sick of the residents complaining about the lack of service as someone always calls off, the rotten food, never any freshfruit put out daily. And always out of bananas and food. Yesterday they were given 2 small meatballs and many go to their Apts. hungry. That is ABUSE and NEGLECT. OH, for they money they pay each month our parents, and grandparents deserve to live the rest of their with dignity and respect. When this go on day after day they just get beaten down. The reason most do not move out is that they have gotten older and they have made friends and are scared to leave. Its kinda like when you start 1st grade, even if its not great its all you know so you stay. And when the families come we all know we try and make it look good because it makes us as managers look bad. But the managers have office work, calls,calls, meetings, and being brow beaten from your RD's every minute of the day. They do not care about any thing but MONEY.. SO get everyone you know and all that have put their horror stories here on this blog maybe we can get help. It sounds like Mr. Garcia cares lets show them at Holiday that we care and we will tell our stories and get this out to the public and any future families and residents. Write, e-mail, call, him TODAY. Let us pray he will be our angel and help this company be shown for what they are.
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I realize that you have very strong feelings that you are trying to share, but your credibility takes a shot when you say that all residents at all 300 facilities are abused and neglected daily. How many communities have you actually been to? I can PROMISE you that none of the residents at my community are anywhere near remotely abused or neglected. Every single one of the managers here cares about each and every one of the residents and go out of their way to make this the best home possible. The same goes for the rest of the staff as well. No, none of us are perfect, but the residents here are VERY happy and know that they are in a great situation. Now for all of you who continue to blame corporate and point fingers and insist the your residents are suffering greatly, why don't you look in the mirror and see what you can do to make their lives better? I work for the same corporate that you do and yes they often make this an extremely challenging job, but it is up to all of us to do "whatever it takes" to make our residents happy and keep their lives enriched. It can be done at every location with the right management team, as long as you have the right attitude. I have been reading this blog for more than a year now (since I joined this company) and it is very unfortunate that most of the people who comment on the blog don't seem to take responsibility for what goes on in their community. It is always the fault of somebody else when things aren't right. REAL leaders take the situation that they are handed and make the necessary changes to make things right. I have now worked in 4 communities since out of training and every single problem that was faced in every single community was fixable, all with the right attitude, leadership, and a little bit of effort. I realize that my comments are not going to be popular here, but when I see someone claim that every single resident is mistreated in this company I have to speak up. It just isn't true.
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Dear John,(Sorry I could not resist I have never had to write a dear John letter)How do you describe the company preying on the residents fear of change to calculate the maximum rent increases that they can extract from the residents and still retain 95% of the residents.Those of us who were around in pre FIG era remember when $20 & $30 increases were the norm and even when Bart took over when Bill got sick and rent increases went to $40 and $50 mo. How do you justify the $150 to $200 mo. increases which are now the norm in a bad economy wher seniors incomes are fixed or shrinking? Isn't this a form of abuse? I guess thats the difference between Bill Colson who started with a dream and one building and the current leadership who started with 300 plus blds.and 6 billion$$$ I guess when you start out with the best in the industry and didn't have to build it from scratch it's hard to know what made you #1. The character of a company is a reflection of the character of It's leadership. Bad character poor leadership. Sorry Jack a spade is a spade!
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ten years in the trenches: We started with the XL side in 2005, quit in 2007; and came back in 2008 to Holiday. The damage had already started by the sell off in 2006 with the new program mentality and has just escalated. Residents were a lot more inclined to accept a smaller rent increase than the ones that I have seen now. FIG's new idea was to rent to a person a couple of years, raise the rent so high to make more money and if they couldn't afford they moved out and then a new person moved in at the current market rate. The only problem was, the market fell, elders were left with houses they couldn't sell, stocks and bonds fell and they lost interest that they previously lived on, then you end up with buildings with a whole bunch of apartments unrented and the management staff harassed because they are empty; it is mind boggling the money they have lost on apartments sitting empty for months on end. Just look at what Fred posted about the census at the building they may go to, that is not a healthy economy area it sounds like.
Fortress is not worried about how long you keep a resident as in the old days (our oldest was 107 when she died, up until she turned about 102 she came to 2 meals a day on her, and services were started to bring her for the 2 meals for a long time before she got real bad); all FIG is worried about is the ever loving buck. They lose money, so they start cutting budgets and services. The residents have paid into the renamed community fee to support activities and other expenses and here they end up with the activity director and bus driver hours cut.
We had to fight to have apartments refurbed, yet RD's yell about curb appeal. The buildings have cabinets and fixtures that are worn out and look like it. If my mother in-law would not live in it, why should anyone else accept the conditions with the rent being as it is.
It's time FIG grows up and takes responsibility for the monster they have created, for the anarchy and discontent that has been bred into the company.
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I think we would all agree there is merit, truth and heart in what John says, and there is merit, truth, and heart in what ten years in the trenches tells.
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Sorry for the grammar errors I was running thru spellcheck and it was gone.
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Does anyone have the Holiday guidelines for termination from the handbook?
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I sent them out. Ask DL if he has seen any.
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You must have not been around for long as for guidelines that Holiday has. No matter what your situation they will have you all setup before they give you your walking papers. The current managers will lie,make up stories and the home office human resources and lawyers will lie till the end. Its hard to say but save your money, walk away with your head held high and be glad your out of such an unethical company. Say a prayer for the residents. Contact the above lawyer if you witnessed any thing he might be interested. STRENGTH in NUMBERS........
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Thank you, Your so right "SETUP" is just what happened. I will contact the above attorney.
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Thank you Anononous, I'm new here, How do I ask DL? Does he have a special place to write other than here. Thank you so much, I have an appointment next week with my attorney. Wish me luck!!
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thefreebornman@yahoo.com
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Yes, I can confirm that we have been offered insurance benefits from day one of training.
We have also been told of the location where they want us, found out that there is only a floating manager couple there at the moment and its less than half occupied with residents.
We have also been told that ALL of the training may now have to be done on site with the floating managers.
We visited the location just to check it out and its in really bad shape, old abandoned cars in the parking lot. Looks like someone is even living in an RV in the parking lot !!!
Well-worn carpets in the lobby and looks like its in need of a thorough cleaning.
Certainly won't be moving our stuff there !!!!
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Bill Colson said If its good for the residents, its good for Hoilday! Can't get much simpler then that.I say if your going to be one be a good one! There is'nt anyone at Hoilday smart enough to figure out how a company can be sucessful with out screwing EVERYONE they deal with.
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Finally! I believe there is a firm which offers potential to those of you seeking redress. I researched the firm and can comfortably offer their site and number to you if you need their help.
Important to the majority of us is the cost usually associated with filing any type of legal action. We often simply cannot afford to pay the expenses of hiring an attorney even though we feel we have been wronged. This firm is a "total contingency" firm. What this means is the cost to you if they decide to represent you is ZERO. That is correct - zero. You pay only if they win the case. The firm is a multi-state firm with availability from coast to coast.
One of the things which has bothered me for a long time is that people are fired for making comments on Facebook, this blog, or many other sites - or someone is not hired because they come on the blog or somewhere else on the net. To me this is wrong as it violates the speech rights. This firm can help with such.
I would hope that a trust exists between us on this blog, a trust developed over the years we have been together sharing the problems and hopes. Trust me when I tell you to contact this firm with your particulars. I firmly believe you will find them ready for the task. Understand that I am not advocating any type of legal action, but I am keeping my promise to find a firm which can handle such when needed.
http://www.lawgarcia.com 1-800-281-8515
Check out their site in its entirety. I was very impressed at the depth of continuity in their cases - and the success rate of settlements. Whether you are in Kentucky, California, Washington, Oregon, Indiana, Florida, or any other state, you can have the potential for representation on a contingency basis. The firm does not advertise and has nothing to do with what I am posting here. If the firm finds fault with anything I write about them I will happily make corrections or remove wordings. I will even go the extra step and put a permanent link to their site just under the header.
Good luck - call them about your situation.
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I must say that we have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly as Floating Managers. IF the training was as in the "good old days." at training centers for 8 weeks more couples would still be in this company. It is erroding at a very fast pace now - due to couples only being given two weeks of basically marketing and YGL. There are good people out there and there are people who care - it is the pressure from corporate that is killing the "Holiday Touch."
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Linny: The set of managers we got were supposed to be finished out by the floaters, but when the new set got there they thought they knew it all and stuck up their nose, so the floaters left. They didn't know any of the office work and then with the YGL they worked on they just added a bunch of ghost people.
Fortress is cutting their throat, it will be pretty soon that they have no one who knows anything and they will have to start hiring people at premium pay in order to get anyone who knows business office work.
I guess you are getting to see it all floating. How is the chef and help doing in the buildings; are they following guidelines or just left to their own devices? I know the set we had went to a different building and they said they were treated terrible, just mainly used to do YGL calls, which would be fine with me if they didn't need anymore brain work than that.
Have you gotten a new assignment yet?
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I've worked for HR for 5 years. The computer system and YGL are MUCH better than those cards we used to use.Remember them?lol
I've been to 4 properties since 2009, in different regions, and it is now a free for all.Managers are all doing their own thing...so are co-managers. NO ONE is trained anymore. There is a pair of floaters out there, Pat and Joe Bob, and they know EVERYTHING and that is it! I have not met ANY MANAGER who knows how to do their job correctly
The ECs are usually the only ones who ATTEMPT to tow the company line. I've seen chefs making their own menus, never making cookies...ordering good food to take home and giving the residents crappy food...theft...lots of theft. Hell...there is every indication that our Regional Maintenance guy is taking kickbacks from the landscapers.
Question! Have you been at a property where no one offers to pay for a meal for 12 months? Never...and yet I've seen managers NEVER deposit meal money in a 12 month period. So where does the money go? lol...One manager told me "we deserve it..." It is a free for all.
The most egregious thing going on now is the resident med thefts. In this business it happens, yes...but oh my it has gotten much worse.I've seen so much you wouldn't believe and I have 2 books almost full of stories and now I've resigned my position and I look forward to writing a book or two of life in a retirement home.
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I'm surprised that you survive five years. I wish that everyone would start naming the names of the people that they work for. If they were held accountable by us and anyone who reads this blog and anywhere that they go after holiday or while they're working at holiday . If someone is checking out his blog and thinking about working for holiday the couples would know who they are dealing with and I think maybe if the RD name was published on this blog. He or she might think twice about the way they are acting. The RD that I worked for was Scott Eliscu and the regional sales leader is Brenda C.we worked in the Northeast for almost 2 years. It's taking a long time to forget how they treated us how we never had a chance to do what we really liked. I know some of you are not able to name names because you're still working there but those of you who are not working for holiday please name all of the people that you had worked with that treated you like garbage so that people who read this blog will know who they are. I tell anyone I know what happened to me at holiday and who I worked for and how they treated me and my husband. I think that's is one way that we all could help improve what goes on at holiday retirement.
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While your idea may have some merit, the reality of doing such could bring forth serious legal action against you by those you name. A very successful attorney friend of mine once told me during a court case: "Your truth, my truth, and their truth are not necessarily the same truth. It all depends upon how the truths are presented by the attorneys in a court of law. Facts and "truth" are two separate sides of the same coin. My job is to present both in a proper supporting manner for the benefit of my client."
Please know that I am seriously contemplating editing out the names of the people you mentioned. I have never yet edited any comment and I do not wish to have such needed. While I have the proper disclaimers in place I do not imagine others do. I request your permission to edit only the names mentioned.
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I would not recommend giving out any names. Even though I know that DL protects this blog, if names start to appear and it is done in a very negative way, such people whose name appear on this blog could potentially sue you (if they would ever find out who you are) for defamation of character. Keep in mind, these RD’s are lowlifes and they will do anything after they loose their jobs especially when it is due to this blog.
Let the lawyer(s) now working on behalf of a resident(s) and perhaps employees handle it.
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DL and Achmed are so true on the not mentioning of names against anyone you worked for; afterall it is hard to prove who is the wronged person when it comes to lawsuits and you may be the one who looses.
I am just happy that there are people who are really reading this blog and glassdoor before they take the plunge to hire on; that in itself is great news.
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@Jojo...That would most definitely be a very good read. The company is snowballing out of control! Upper management doesn't care. I know of med thefts and most times it is reported that the resident mistakenly took more than they were supposed to. So the family has to hire someone for medication supervision.
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We had the hint of med theft at one of our communities, but I really am not sure, the housekeepers had been there for several years and the resident was definitely over-medicating herself and she would not report it. For managers and co-managers to be doing this is a terrible situation, but I don't know how you would find some of this stuff out before hiring a person if it has not shown up in their history before, or unless their history is really checkered looking.
I hate to say but you need to have your hand into every pie going on in the community so you know what is going on, this includes the care services and the kitchen. We had had theft going on in the kitchen in three communities we were in and it is hard to catch or prove sometimes, but due diligence and the knowledge that employees are being watched helped a lot, of course if the chef is the guilty party that is terrible and a sign of the times now I guess.
Our EC was doing so many great things in the building, or trying to; the manager would cancel every trip she(EC) had planned for the residents because she couldn't or didn't want to go. Then the manager had allowed the bus to go with one resident and she went along so she could go gambling; I could see if you had a lot of residents to keep up with, but one. One long trip the manager cancelled; corporate had to finally refund the residents their downpayment. Then you add all the events and extra cooking EC did for them, they lost a good person when she left and I doubt very much if the ones I have seen now would compare or even do half the work. The new set of managers before she left couldn't even blow up balloons for a birthday on Sunday, so they required her to come in, but hell then because she would go over hours.
I think we had great reg maint director, you remember in the old days where they would report to higher ups if there were even a stain on the carpet. The last one we had had his hands tied of course because of the budget; trying to get apartments refurbed that looked like crap was an act of congress, but he helped as much as he could; we got to over-ride the manager at one place on this because they did not want to spend the money, the old bonus system.
YGL is better, but the contacts get dried out as any do and they get tired of being contacted constantly. I had hot contacts that you would contact ASAP, then ones on a monthly, every 3mo, 6 mo or so when using the old system. Sometimes I know the home visits didn't get too far, esp after the market dropped but it did keep us on the radar with them or if they had a friend. I don't know if they are even reaching that many to move in with the system they have now. Remember how it was work to get a move-in and it was the warmth and caring and homey atmosphere which convinced them to move in,we were a safe and secure home; their family in a lot of cases were your family, they listened to you. Oh well, they are remaking the wheel and it is flat f
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It saddens me to read this blog. I have (and still am) been employed with holiday for 6 years as part of the kitchen staff. Throughout that time I have seen a very obvious decline in ethics and marketing with the company. Though I have not had to bear the brunt of the harsh condition that i read about with management, it does not go unnoticed in the lower positions of the company. The building i work in is full of great employees who genuinely care about the residents. We also care about our jobs. The idea of anyone preying on residents or stealing from any of the buildings is a sad one. I know our staff doesn't.
I have, even before finding this blog, noticed the demographic we cater to has changed. I find it unethical to rent an apartment to someone who obviously needs 24-7 assistance. I guess they figure taking their money for 3 months before their families move them to higher care is right.
I have on many occasions wanted to leave this company and never look back. Constant threats of termination, constant emphasis on sales (even to the dishwashers and housekeeping) constant changing of management (all with their own idea of how things should work) constant complaints from the residents about not wanting casseroles. I understand their frustration, and would love to create delicious meals for them. It's just not possible to get fancy with 3.70 a day. But, like many of us hourly workers, I need a job and can't find one elsewhere. The pay is actually pretty decent for the industry, and guaranteed 40-60 hours a week is a plus. I just wish we all weren't stuck here.
I read on this blog the food they serve is worst than hospital food. I can totally see this being true at some buildings. I actually hear mostly positive comments on our food (especially from transferring management and floaters in comparison to other buildings)That's not to say that it 5 star food. That's just not possible with at most 2 cooks and 2 kitchen helpers on.
I have also seen the lack of accountability in management. Even though 90 percent of the hourly staff gives it their all, it frustrated me that management is too lazy or too stupid to fire those of the staff who obviously don't care/don't know their job. I guess with the turnaround with management (I'd say just under a year) there isn't enough communication from coming and going managers to keep standards up.
well this really is just some ramblings from me. I wish the company was better, I wish you guys the best of luck outside of holiday, I wish something would change. Thanks for reading this little blurb from an hourly staffer.
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anon: I know there are great kitchen workers out there, our staff in the kitchen seemed to be hellbent on fighting and backbiting; if the chef tried to keep them in control, they would run to the manager and have her over-ride whatever he said. We had at least one good chef who ran to another community of Holiday that he was familiar with and knew would be under better control.
I know a lot of people complain a lot about the food, but with what you have to work with and all the different add on menus it is a wonder you can even keep enough food around. With filling in in the kitchen when cooks were sick and watching the food deliveries, I know we had good food coming in. There would still be complaints when the chef would even cook lamb (he wasted money there since they hated it at our community), trying to cook steak was as hard since most seniors have so many problems with false teeth and can't chew the meat. Some areas love salmon, not this one, don't even think about cooking it. Seniors also have a hard time tasting food because of age or medicines, so it is a never ending battle.
Have you looked at the new Holidaytouch website. Look at all the good sounding meals they have advertised on it; have you seen any recipes for them, or even made them yet.
I don't think management now has a clue to any of the guidelines and why they were made in the past; a lot of them like dictating their own rules and the way things should be done. And with so many management changes, the hourly employees in a lot of cases have been there a lot longer and do as they please; I know for a fact in one community we were in they would pull stuff they weren't supposed to do, and if I said anything about it, they were dumb as to the guideline.
One of the worst things we had problems with was to have the kitchen keep the cookies made for snacks, the residents would come down to no cookies or whatever and then get pissed off. I would have rather made a trip to the store to get something myself. I did a lot of times make the snack for after church that was held on Saturday, it was a great time for my husband and I to talk to the residents and family if anyone came.
Hang in there, the residents need someone they can rely on even if it is in the shadows, just know you aren't the only one who has concerns, but no where but here to turn to.
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To anon: Thank you for writing on this blog. It really does not matter whether you are a hourly person of a management person. DL Charles created this blog for each and every Holiday employee who have something to get off of their chest. As long as it is truthful information
It is interesting to know the food allowance is $ 1.23 per meal, per resident, per day. Wow that is very low. Please keep sharing your feelings. I am sure many people appreciate it and thank you for doing so.
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hello, no new gig yet. need a short break when I do get back. It is getting so out of control. You are right many many managers just do what they want and as I have said before the residents and the staff have seen such a high rate of turn over that there is no and I do mean NO respect for the new managers, co's or floaters. There are communities out there where they still try to stick to the "Holiday" way, but very few. I wish there were a position created for traveling trainers to go in and actually teach the right way. Looking forward to leaving the west coast and heading back east in a few months - I miss the eastern states.
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It has been said many times on here about all the issues with this company. It is no surprise that Managers come in and do things their way since that is the way the CEO is. He just wants to make money and take the company public and it does not matter how he gets there or what lives he destroys (residents and managers) in the process as long as he gets there. I have seen several new CO's that come into buildings and start doing things their way and not even tiring to work with the current Managers but causing major deviseness in the building. This is the worse experience that I ever had, outside of the residents and staff, I have never seen a more disorganized company of lack of leadership as I have seen here. Like most mangers that share on this blog I have been in management for many years and have worked for some great companies, but never have I been treated or experienced what I have here with HRC. They remind of some other companies that were poorly run and are now out of business Wickes Lumber, Heilig Meyers, and Quality Farm and Fleet. The big difference is that with HRC that are 1000's of seniors that will be affected if this company goes out of business. Jack wake up and know that when you put money before people you are doomed for failure.
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To 10 years in the Trenches: As a most unhappy resident, please tell us "how to beat Holiday", as you stated you could. When we moved in about 7 years ago our community really did come to feel like our home. Beginning about 3 years ago our managers became who come and go and absolutely do not care about us residents at all. They do all, with cos, pour coffee and tea but I realized years ago that is because they hear many details helpful to them as they go quietly from table to table. We have had a number of trainees (trained by who???) and cos that we would love to have had stay here, but they were all scattered about. Alll but one couple have since quit Holiday, from stress. We understand that, for the good couples. The one couple who didn't quit stayed on as floaters, which is great for residents. All the floaters we have had have been good, caring people. We are strongly looking at a move out, hard as that is for seniors.
Will be looking, hoping for your answer.
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Digger, what state are you located in?
Also is you scroll back, you can see the name of an attorney. Contact him and let him know about your experiences since you have been there for 7+ years, it might help this attorney to build a case he is working on right now.
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Digger: I always enjoyed doing the refills on coffee and tea, it was to me a great way to say hello to the residents each day, esp after we came back on our days off. I can't say that we overheard anything, it was hard to get away sometimes from a table, that took practice, esp if they wanted to visit; and then sometimes complaining about the food, this is where according to what it was we could try to rectify the problem if anyway possible. It is too bad if you had management that snooped otherwise, I sure don't know what they thought the would learn that would help them in anyway.
I know the residents where we left from were really tired of all the bull and new managers all the time, I heard they got to where they decided to do as they pleased as a protest and didn't listen to the new managers they got. I know that at least 8 or more moved out after we left to a different place and one rented an apartment and a part-time caregiver, there would have been more, but a lot of folks are really stuck sometimes to where they are at and can't afford to go anywhere else.
Do you have resident meetings with the managers and chef. I know that all problems cannot be resolved or fixed all the times, but I do think it helps to keep accountability between management, and the residents and problems aired so that perhaps they can be fixed.
I know one thing our residents didn't like was all the events going on with strangers in the building all the time and money going out that they felt was a waste, esp for meals when it was usually the same people coming to the events and these were never planning on moving in; the residents felt this should have been spent on better food for them.
Fortress is trying to run the buildings like a hotel and it isn't working. The managers and co's are nothing but telemarketers who have to live on the phone pressuring someone to come in for a tour or meal and move-in; and then the never ending conference calls. The residents are used like a pyramid scheme to get all your friends, church, pastors, relatives invited to get them to move-in, etc; not like the old days where it was reputation that got the move-in.
Now that the income is not coming in and being replaced by new rentals, the budgets are cut, the staff is cut, esp the bus driver and activity (EC) director. So the circle goes round and round and they don't know why.
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Dear Digger, Holiday's Achilles' Heal is you and your fellow residents. I realize that moving to another senior living community is difficult. It is this fear that FIG relies on to help maintain their census and profit margin. Until Holiday feels the pain of losing big percentages of their residents, they will continue to operate in this despicable manner. People who do not have a conscience or some type of internal moral compass to guide them will respond only to pain; in this case loss of revenue. You residents being willing to move is the pain. You are part of the greatest generation that has ever lived in America and you deserve better than what you are getting from Holiday. You people did not get to your place in life by being afraid; it is time to stand up to this abuse. Please share this with all of your fellow residents but be careful to keep it quiet until you have a big percentage of residents willing to move all at one time. There is power in your numbers. Just be willing to do the work instead of just complaining. I would start by all residents signing a petition standing up to the outrages rent increases and demand a more reasonable percentage such as 2%-3%. The old Holiday built the #1 senior retirement living business with no more rent increases than 2% or 3% annually, but I don't ever remember RDs, Regional Chefs, Regional Maintenance and Regional Marketers staying in hotels and eating out on expense accounts like they do now. They stayed in buildings and ate the same food as the residents. Also, in times past RDs knew everything about the operations of the communities. I would challenge any RD now to go in and train new cos and managers how to do building operations. We used to have Regional Maintenance people who actually came to the building in work clothes and did work with our maintenance man. Our Regional Chefs used to come to the community in Chef's whites and actually pulled shifts when needed. This is possibly the reason why FIG now needs to get 8% and 10% rent increases....do you think?? A company that places no value on the people who actually do the work (we are called Human Capital at Home Office)will never get the same quality work from their employees as did Bill Colson who I heard say many times that the "heart and soul of my company is my management teams, without them we are nothing". Good Luck Digger.
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post script to Digger: It will do no good to complain to your managers they are now only live in telemarketers with one goal that is to drive new people in at current market rates. No one is focused on taking care of the residents. If you don't believe me just watch and see how much of your management teams time is spent on the residents and how much time they spend marketing!.They will likely be gone before any thing gets done anyway. You should insist on speaking directly to someone from home office above an RD(regional Director)They will likely be gone too!!
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Ok, I have 15 apartments open right now. If anyone wants to move, let me know and I glady will send a truck to and help to move you.
Contact DL Charles for my e-mail address
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Lady Gaga
I hate to hear you have so many open, but... and I know they want you do put on the pony to get them rented...
I copied this from someone, thought home office needs to implement it asap.
"A wise business man hires employees carefully, gives them the knowledge and tools to do the job and does not Micro manage the job."
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ten years in the trenches: you are so right about the RD's and others in the old days, where we were once at had a corporate apartment, guest and model apartment; until after hurricane Katrina that is, then all the apartments were filled and the census was 100% with these apartments filled.
With the new regime since 2006, FIG thought they would be able to rent to residents for a short period of time; then when that person left after the rent had been jacked up higher, they would rent to the next new person at the new market rate; the only problem is the housing market fell, money is not prevalent and more people are staying home with the advent of all the care services, emergency call buttons, and even the possibility for VA benefits for a vet who needs services at home. Get the paddles out, it is a sinking ship going in circles. And they think residents are stupid when the resident is in an apartment that has worn out cabinets, worn out fixtures and plumbing which in a lot of cases can't even be repaired because of the age, the small dinky refrigerators that are an accident looking for a happening and that said resident should be happy to live in these conditions.
I don't know how things are a year later at our previous community, but they did suffer some deaths, at least 2 who had to move because of the VA aid not going through, a couple when the rent went up and the new manager would not take a stand and see if a lessor amount would be accepted (our leaving also helped them decide to move also)and then several who were pissed when we were fired and left for a community that actually gave them kitchens and some help for a lessor amount. I really don't know what home office is thinking about all the move outs, if they even worried about it or not, after all they ended up with about the 3rd new set of managers in less than a 4 month period. I figure the more they have unrented the more money Fig is loosing and word of mouth travels on.
I hope all residents were able to band together and move, but I am sure it is hard to find a new suitable home in all cities, and FIG with just a few moves would just harass the new managements to get the apartments rented by hook or crook. I just wish that residents could do a march with signs in front of the building protesting as long as they didn't get arrested, everyone else have demonstrations and rallies, why not the residents
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Has anyone been experiencing managers coming in and moving into apartments and cottages instead of the usual provided apartments??? The RD's seem to be letting some call the shots so to speak. I never knew we had an option!!! Let me know if you can speak tot his happening.
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Linny: I cannot speak for any of that happening, we at an XL property in 2005 had been given a 2 bedroom apartment on the 3rd floor, I heard that they had been having a hard time keeping co's. My husband liked the 3rd floor because of the balcony, he could keep an eye on staff leaving at night and the parking lot. The stripmall next to us had a radio station promotional van parked out front that someone broke into one night, we had a women beaten on by her boyfriend and chased down the street, never a dull moment.
At one other property in 2008 we were in the required apartment which was very small. The next property had the apartment moved to a one bedroom but larger living area and kitchen area, but the manager who had just barely come back decided it couldn't be there so it was moved back to the original apartment which was a lot smaller than the other buildings co's apartment. It didn't even have a stove or cook-top in it. The apartment had been rented out to single man and we ended up having to wait for 2 months before he finally moved out, using the portable phone at night which I didn't like just in case, and staying in yet a different apartment on the 3rd floor, which was great for keeping an eye on the diningroom staff.
I really don't know how management would keep an eye on the property if they had apartments and they were in a cottage. It looks like the cottages would have people in them which were more mobile and alert than most of the buildings, but then again I don't know since I have never been in that type situation.
Mass confusion rules the roost.
I guess now there are plenty of apartments to choose from and since there seems to be more apartments than incoming management, I guess they feel they can dictate the rules.
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Linney, The placing of new management in cottages and other apts. is a new program to eliminate floating managers. The idea is that you permanently hire extra managers and house them in communities as extra cos. until you need them to plug holes in other communities. These extra managers are on sallery to control the overtime that they have to pay to hourly floaters now. This is kind of like the military having reserves to send to the front to replace those soldiers who are killed or wounded. I guess that holiday has given up on trying to keep long term managers and now figures that manager turn over of 90%(this is the % of turnover that I have heard although 100% of the managers in our region have turned over) after one year is just the cost of doing business. This is the reason that new hires are now given only two weeks sales training and then are thrown into the deep end to sink or swim,This has to be a huge expense on holiday and probably part of the reason for the 8% and 10% rent increases. Instead of finding ways to keep long term management they just pass on the cost to the residents of burning and turning management.
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P.S. I guess you have to go to A Ivey league college and have a masters in business management to understand why this is a better way to do business!
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We just found out that another RD got the ax in the GA,FL area anyone else here about this
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Just in Fl: Is it Chester Reed I wonder, I think he was in FL, not sure if he was in GA though. He started out in LA I think and maybe TX.
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sam fair, rd from Georgia just turned in notice last week. good man, had a great offer. new rd already to take over.....and from the ranks!
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Can anyone tell me the name of the RD who assumed Sam Fair's region?
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Ten years in the trenches: This sure sounds like a screwed up way of managing a business; I could see if they gave them cottages or bigger apartments in order to keep them since most of the co's apartments suck. Then what do these extra co's do once they are hired, work in the community they are hired in or what. And this is cheaper than floaters, go figure. Of course Fortress can't keep anyone like in the old days. It seems like every plan they have come up with has failed, the wheel must be about octagon shaped by now.
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I am always late to chime in due to the west coast time difference. LOL
I have not heard about any RD getting fired. Chester Reed has not had FL for quite some time. He has TX, CO, WA - some of those states. He seems like a good guy - as far as Holiday will let them be. As hard as life is for co's and managers I can only imagine how they treat RD's. What I have been seeing is co's and managers coming in and getting residents apartments or cottages. (no one ever told us that you can just throw a fit and say "our furniture won't fit in that apt.") Our co apartments were always nice but a small one bedroom. Managers apartments are not really that much bigger - one more bedroom - big deal!!! Even the pay difference was not that big between co'c and managers. It may be these days - who knows?
I have not seen an extra set (floaters) being kept at communities except for a short periods of time inbetween assignments and I bet they were couples who do not have a house to go to. Not sure how the monies work out - paying a salary and lodging to keep a couple on call vs. paying for travel and hours plus overtime, which is unavoidable.
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it actually was Sam Fair, the RD in the south east. he ended up with a great opportunity, and took it. Good man, BTW
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Floating managers cost the company(on average) $1250 per couple per week plus mileage(36cents a mile)plus add. overtime.Most RDs keep 3 to 5 sets of floaters working full time .With the companies new pay scale of $1000 per couple per week with no overtime or travel well you do the math.We now see blds. with only one set of managers or cos and bringing in these floating cos to cover the days off, vacations ect. until new managers or cos can be hired and rushed through 2 weeks of sales training ,This will become company wide soon to eliminate all hourly management staff.Like I said I guess you have to have a masters degree in business to see how this works. Again it is the residents who get the shaft with exhausted staff (because the tally of bricks shall not deminish!,sorry I just watched the ten commandments)and the existing staff. I wonder how long managers will last now? next they will cut out the two weeks of sales training,wait a minute ,would that be such a terrible thing?
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ten years in the trenches: Maybe they should cut out all management and just let the residents run the building, this is getting bad with all the cutbacks. With the turnover that has been going, how do the new people even know any of the real paperwork that has to be done for everything else besides sales. I can't wait and see what is going on in another 6months.
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I have a feeling that we are now, or soon to be in the next 2 months, on the precipice of oops...for Holiday.
It is all coming to a head and the wait for the fireworks is almost over.
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JoJo: this makes sense in light of the way Holiday has been mishandled and if you ask me shoved into a downhill fall that only is leading in failure. You don't take a sound business, cut everyones' throat that knew how to make it run and not pay the price somewhere. Then instead of keeping the rents at a manageable rate and try to figure how to keep afloat till the market improved, they go onto more crazy actions to piss off what residents they do have left. If you ask me someone could make easy pickens if they go bankrupt. The mold has been broken and I doubt if it will ever be fixed.
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Well I don't blame any RD for bailing ship for a better offer. If he was any good then they will gain at his new job.
Hope the new RD figures out what is up and what is down in a hurry.
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Home Office is at it again! We just lost Dave Purdy after 25 years of perfect service!! Can't wait to see the explanation!! Good luck Dave!!!
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To Mr Callison and COO,
Your quest concerning CMI ( cancelled move-ins ) Will not be found listed under CMT failure to provide the holiday touch. It also won't be found listed under Value selling because we have abandoned that for the most part. Now, just so everyone knows what I am referring to, there has been posted a percentage of move outs that occur in the first 90 days that is staggering and there is an effort to want to put this on the lack of the touch with managers and staff.
You will find it listed under;
Desperate sales, ghost move ins, discounts way beyond budgeted expectations. This begs a question to be answered. Why give managers budget guidelines and expectation only to have RD's and RSL's and CSL's destroy these budgeted discounts? Not only that, why set a bonus structure that is unattainable because of these same practices by the same people? Back to list. You can find it listed under; months free rent. Guess what? Here's your 90 days for the most part. Let's see, they signed May 5th but we gave them the rest of the month free, then we gave them June free, we didn't charge them any community fee and in some cases we gave them 1/2 of July free because they couldn't move in until then anyway. Now since we pressured them during sales process they signed papers, went home and realized the mistake they had made, called and cancelled the move in, paid no money and they are clear to go. Oh wait I'm not done yet. So we have cancelled move ins, reported move ins, bonus calculated etc... The RD doesn't want to report a cancelled move in or report a move out so they just leave it be until they have to comply with the 30 day notice. So all of a sudden a move out occurs right around 60-90 days. Then home office asks did they ever move in, did we collect any money, did you give them the keys? Then the bonus calculated gets deducted from further valid move in bonus opportunities.
There is so much to talk about and I have been mostly pro-holiday but the tide has turned. COO, ask some questions besides the finger point investigation toward managers of not applying the touch, not knowing who is in the dining room, not knowing if they come to activities. I would suggest that the percentages reported within the first 90 days are due to desperate sales and due to abandoning Value selling. Please research this before focus is all put on managers. You have access to the actual numbers and a few questions to AR and digging a little deeper as to the facts of the CMI will reveal the real problem.
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@ Nobody....Nothing like telling it like it is!
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The holiday touch! Hi I have been busting my ass for this company for over 3 years, all of a sudden the company can't close deals with the CSL's telling perspective residents that they can have any amenities they need..just sign...just sign..I need my bonus..just sign..now the cancelled move ins start to pile up. Here comes "resident on-boarding" to make folks feel welcome. Good idea but who has freakin time to go and sit with new residents when we aren't given time to do the job we already have! Here we need you to make sure that you make over 300 meals a day, listen to people complain about a dirty salt shaker, scrub every inch of the kitchen, have no time to actually run the building and now you didn't take 30 minutes out of the day to make sure Ethel feels good today. Oh wait---you didn't come in on your day off to fill out a piece of paper?!?!!?! GTFO you are FIRED! Some touch Jack -- thanks now I have to file unemmployment and hope I can keep my lights on in my house. Do the managers in your area fire people with families over a piece of paper not being done when they want it done? mine did. Great way to run a business i hope you are enjoying your lovely new mansion in lake oswego. Thanks for working me to death for 3 years to have a co-manager whos been with you for 3 months fire me because he felt me not coming in on my day off was "unacceptable"
Thanks a million Jack. I can't express in words how the on-boarding is actually making things worse. If your csl's did their job right I would still have mine.
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I know where you are coming from we got new mangers here they have only been here a couple of months they came in and started changing everything and so on the new manger fired me because she thought i gave her a dirty look at breakfast then wrote up the co-manger that has been with this company for years for letting the maintenance man eat a bowl of oatmeal i man really what is this world coming to. these mangers are rude to the residents they sit in there apartment on there days off with there ears to the wall to listen to the people in the office because they think every body is talking about them i mean seriously its not all about them
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LJ
Frankly I would just make sure that you talked loud enough for them to hear if they are that paranoid so that they don't think that you are plotting against them.
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We are collecting unemployment too! had to move into an apartment since we sold our home after working for Holiday 3 years. We had planned to work their until we retired. I loved the work and YES it was long hours but we were happy until the hotel RD's came into the picture. Our RD treated us with NO respect from day 1. We were placed in a competition with our co's. We had worked for this company for 3 3/4 years why NOW are we treated so disrespectful? Also, when our csl came no one gave us any information on how she fit into the picture. I mean we didn't know if we were managing her and it was told that she was Marketing our building so that we could spend more time with the operations, and residents. That seemed to be a great idea, but at some point we were sucked back into the marketing picture after not doing this for several months. In YGL you would need to read all the previous information so you didn't screw up the sale.....I liked sales so much better when I was the ONLY contact!!! at least I would know the family and the whole situation and they trusted me. I was successful doing this my way. As a result I was less effective and other team members were talking to my contacts.
When we got our CSL she was in charge of the marketing budget. This took all the fun out of our events! I am so appalled that after a year things are still the same and FIG has not learned anything about how to treat employees. In response to the post of the hourly employee...I have experienced the attitude they have toward the constant change of managers. Just remember they for the most part are trying to make the residents happy and that should be everyones goal. You do know more about the history of the building. We had 4 housekeepers that were still working since the building opened. Of course they had changed the guidlines to suit themselves. It's a real battle to go back to the original guidlines you will only make them hate you. AND they know that you will be gone soon!!! and they are right! I really don't care if this company survives....for the residents sake I hope it doesn't. Can't wait for 60 minutes or some other whistle blower program to investigate this company! Good luck to all the currant managers out there I feel for you. Wouldn't it be fun to have a x-manager reunion? this could help the healing process.
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I was a CSL and refused to do the fake move-ins, REFUSED! I also would not exploit the A&A program and our Veterans.
The truth is that there are Managers who do this and there are CSLs who do this. Those who have, did the wrong thing. That being said, we all know the tremendous pressure to get move ins at all costs and the nearly hourly harassment from the RD and RSL to make it happen.
The frustrating thing was is that no matter how well you did, no matter how hard you worked, how many hours you put in, however many calls you made, it was never enough. The ONLY reason this company hasn't imploded due to lack of employees is because of the economy and high unemployment. This blog and frontdoor.com are going a long way in warning potential employees but sadly, people are desperate for work and will delude themselves that they will be different.
If someone reads these two resources and still takes a job with Holiday, I have no sympathy whatsoever.
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I clicked on frontdoor.com and up came a real estate site with nothing about retirement jobs. Did I get it wrong?
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DCharles, so sorry, I've mixed that up before - pardon the wild goose chase
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How about this 30, 60, 90??? Like we all have time to do that little project. What happened to "independent living?" These residents do want to be constanly spied on and tracked. There are programs in place to "onboard" residents, and get them aclimated, this is such a waste of people power. If you really want to know why residents move out, it is because of mostly these things; bad food, rent increases, high management turn over, staff not properly trained and so on.
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Oh Lord that is exactly what we went through.
Give them anything...and then one day, a few months later you get an email saying you have $40000 open AR why arent these res. paying rent?
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I agree to all of the above; been there, done that. Pissed one couple off because RD wanted the sale before the start of the next month, they cancelled mom's move-in, we refunded money, etc, they got a bill and really pissed them off. And HR thinks that people are stupid enough not to know that it changes their anniversery date also for the next year.
Nothing like paper ghosts; I always tried to not get in those situations where it would come back to haunt no matter what HR wanted.
Fortress needs to get back to where the community is the residents home, not the local lodge for anyone to use for whatever hairball event they come up with. Shake loose of some of the money for the residents to use for outings, I know if nothing else a short trip out to eat is a pleasure that they can still enjoy; most have been there, done that with other activities and they don't have the stamina to hold out since this isn't the 55 active group in most cases; this means give the EC more hours to work with also.
Quit trying to make all the communities look the same when they are different; our old community the new management was trying to change where church services were held to a smaller room (the group was already overflowing the one they were in that was bigger) and the only reason I heard for this change was that the new manager didn't like it next to the office; we never had any problems with it there, they didn't make a lot of racket and the door could be closed also except maybe on Wednesday night.
As far as the 30, 60, 90, I had a closer relationship with new move-ins just by observing things like a person reading a book, on one difficult lady who moved in when I got through with one particular author she also liked I would give her the book. I am not a computer whiz in a lot of cases but just to be able to help a resident be able to get back on line or even turn their computer back on was a joy to me and they loved it. Things like this is what endears us to the residents and they in turn spread the word.
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With Sam Fair leaving is there any chance they will promote our RSL to the position. It's amazing to me that you can be hired to be a RSL but never good enough to be a RD
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I survived Holiday-enjoying the posts. Hang in there.
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And coming in on your day off is something they should not even allow unless it is for a big special event or an emergency (then it's all hands on deck). Our building was having a group of AARP members for lunch on a Monday, well announced to the new managers who knew so much, the kitchen had been told, maintenance had brought up the tables. I stayed in the building just in case something big came up, my husband had gone home to help our daughter with her car. I went to diningroom, the tables had not even been set or nothing. This was the new in charge people who should have been overseeing it as far as I care. I ended up helping throw silver on the tables and the fittings, then served the section a server normally served so she could wait on the guests. (This is the way we normally took care of the extra serving.) I don't think I should have had to worry about it on my day off, the managers remained at their table eating and didn't even bother to socialize with the guests. Of course the RD who thought that no one should be eating in the diningroom for 2 hrs a day thought they were right.
Perhaps if the laws would make it mandatory for overtime on your days off even though you are salaried we would see a difference. After all if you take a day off they want it accounted for and given back; they can't have it both ways. And now with the way these new folks are being trained like they are god is something else. We gave a lot of time that was freebies because we enjoyed what we did, and we were too far from home to go all the time; but they don't look at that I am afraid.
As far as a RSL being promoted to RD, this is a new game now. In the past RD's came from promoted managers who had come up the rank. I don't even know if a RSL can effectively know all of what goes on without having been a manager or at least being trained in a building for several months. Not saying it can't be done, just might be a little bit like throwing in the new management now that hasn't a clue.
The RSL we had did not stay in a building and I really don't think would have a grasp of the day to day running of a building.
I hear Best Buy isn't doing too good either since they have tried the tricks of Circuit City and hired kids and changed the salary base to nothing.
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These new managers and cos are so outrageously full of "entitlement" it blows my mind.
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JoJo
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Fred
Yes Fred we have done the same things you have, one lady was just wanting someone to talk to at 2am several mornings, nothing wrong with her other than she was bi-polar and went from one thing to another. We have cooked on an 1 1/2 hr notice and had great fun; this is where if you have a good relationship with your staff comes in because they will help too; sandwiches work great if you have ham and the slicer and trimmings. We have played games, I usually called bingo several times a week. And to visit with the families of residents used to be called "Fireside Chats". Talk about violating the privacy act, we did have to tattle on occasion, esp if the person was not quite there anymore. We have hosted a many buffet party for the residents when the manager wanted nothing to do with it, it doesn't take much to make them happy, just not so many of the planned events with strangers bombarding them in their home. We've cleaned up water from a flooded tub which ran down to the 1st floor at 4:30 in the morning. My husband usually did a lot of odd fixit work on Saturdays such as the vacuums not working. We have made Veterans Memorial Walls and someone else took credit for it right down to the fact that I wanted to put clouds on the wall and didn't have the time to do so before the holiday; this was all on our own time.
I think what you are missing is the attitude a lot of us got from the RD's, the one we had esp. who did not want the managers or co's to obviously eat at all; as you well know when you are in the diningroom you are helping serve tea and coffee, fetch trays of salads from the kitchen,serve if you are short a server, making announcements, trying to accommodate that late person after everything has been put up in the kitchen, cleaning up spills, taking care of emergencies such as one who choked on a half piece of roast beef out of a sandwich which my husband worked on for 20min before the ambulance made it (husband now has a heart murmur now that he never had before), then pops in a tour. And then conference calls being scheduled during a meal constantly. I don't believe if you look at it that time was wasted in the diningroom, but this is how we and others were treated and talked too. Needless to say this RD was helped out the door very soon after we were fired, but the damages are done, they lost a lot of residents over this and believe me word of mouth is alive there.
Then factor the cold call lists with a hundreds on it to call in a weeks time for an event, and YGL. You are new so they will let things go for now, but when the building isn't full and census is not growing they may start looking at you, and don't forget that calls can be made till 9pm at night.
More time has been wasted chasing corporate rabbits than it is worth. And they want in Chin
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Fred that last word in last sentence should be China.
I seriously don't think China would put up with them there.
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They won't. The Chinese are very protective of their seniors and practically revere them. Just one things goes wrong and there'll be hell to pay and they'll fail at that too.
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Survivor: I feel the way you do, whoever the prospective resident is in contact with is the best person to continue the process. And the camaraderie we had with the other residents and staff is what sold the move-in in a lot of cases; not a distant CSL. I have even had a wait deposit from a Senator for his mom a few years back when independant communities were not that prevalent, that was when you weren't going out of your mind chasing rabbits or having to put up with the hotel/motel gidgets.
Because of all the turnover even when we got back into the picture there were problems with the staff doing as they pleased and like you say did not even attempt to follow the guidelines and if you mentioned the fact oh well who's the boss really. We had always tried to work around problems and give the person a chance to do better or to relearn the process, now they want to throw everyone under the bus.
And really the marketing budget should have been footed by Fortress and the community budget been for the residents and the things for them in the building if you ask me; things like Easter parties and other holiday meal gatherings like in days past. Really it is more like the lefthand doesn't know what the righthand is doing.
I bet your health has improved somewhat now though, that is the only good thing I can say. Survive and prosper and pray for those left behind (the residents mainly).
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speaking of turnover.... look at all the openings around the country. These are all for management teams and in this economy, there's something really wrong here.
http://www.jobs.net/jobs/Holiday-Retirement/en-us/all-jobs/united-states/
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Copied from the afore mentioned site: What a crock - it's all the things we do not have the time to do, and all the things they quit training people to do.It is all OJT now, Tooooo funny!
Job Description
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Senior Living Community Managers - Team of Two
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Job Summary:
We are seeking hard working and dependable Co-Managers to help in the management of one of our Retirement Communities. You must have the open heart to meet the needs of our residents as well as the business sense to make sales an occupancy goals.
Responsibilities include:
•Provide leadership, supervision, training, guidance and communication while overseeing every single aspect of Community management.
•Develop techniques and resources devised to attain 100% occupancy all the time through effective community relations, special events, direct-inquiry calls, community tours, etc.
•Respond in a timely manner to resident complaints regarding any issue to confirm residents are provided security, comfort and value to seniors seeking an independent and fulfilling lifestyle through our full service independent living communities. You must manage in a genuine, warm, and friendly atmosphere, what we refer to as “ The Holiday Touch”.
•Develop and keep staff that provides quality service and ensures resident satisfaction.
•Exercise managerial and supervisory authority within a manner that comply with Sunshine moving to a dream retirement home guidelines and applicable laws. Interpret, implement, adjust to and effectively enforce Community practices per such policies and laws.
•Oversee all programs and requirements required to make our communities profitable and successful.
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The last bullet point is the only one they really care about. Problem is that they don't have a clue or the tools to help their employees accomplish it.
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Linny: the info you copied looks like it has the "Sunshine" name in it, is it for Holiday. Sunshine Retirement Living is a different entity now, Rick Glaunert, Quintin King, May Sunshine Hasso are working there it appears. They have the old "Behrman Place" in the New Orleans area among others. Hawthorne Retirement is the other Colson brothers holding.
The website and most websites even in the past that advertised jobs for Holiday had everybody listed as needing employees I think just so that they could keep a steady flow of people applying that they weren't going to hire. I think that is why it is so hard to nail them down to where the new couples were going to go when they were hired and why some got sent very far away to fill a position. I think used to be that they wouldn't have you anymore than about 4 hrs or so from your main home domicile; don't reckon that is the case anymore, I think they like to keep people out far so they think they won't bail and run on them so fast.
Some of the old job description and duty listings I saw about 3yrs ago on Career Builder I think, were a hoot, they were so convoluted, but then again this was the new regime leading the way and this is why you have areas now that have CSL's trying to be the boss of everything vs the manager. That is why no one knows what they are supposed to be doing or in charge of; they have changed the game plan so many times with one failure after another that goes awry; Like I said reinventing the wheel.
Sunshine looks like they have kept the core basics, including the "Gracious Retirement" living in their logo, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had better control of their employees and using the guidelines still.
Too bad they couldn't get sued for false advertising.
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I'll tell you what...
I would love to be able to buy the last property I managed.
It could be such a moneymaker.
Manage it ourselves.
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JoJo: in the day our old Reg Head Chef and I believe it was employees bought a property; she made some money when they decided to sell it, but this was before the economy really crashed.
One property we were at had too many problems that needed to be fixed, not including the mold that was in some of the apartments. The other was in pretty good shape, but you know the usual with the cabinets and fixtures that needed to be replaced. And with the rent being charged at these places with the economy being so bad and so many options, Fortress had priced themselves out of the market; then add the disgruntled residents with all the management changes, voila, maybe they will have to sell off.
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You know you would think the new breed of managers that holiday is hiring these days would think more than 5 minutes in front of them. Yes, get a load of this everyone, You fire someone from the company who basically held the community together after 3.5 years of hard work for a very idiotic reason, and then the same person who fired you calls you while you are out looking for a new job and asks, "how do I do this, how do I print that?, could you please tell me how, i am asking please tell me. " You fire someone, you sever ties with that person, I am not going to continue to help you out with your problems and work when you throw me out on the street. I loved my residents and bent over backwards for them, and this is what you expect?, for me to continue to carry a flag for you? getting fired for not coming in on my day off to hand someone a piece of paper. WAKE UP! You fire someone who you don't even supervise, you then you have to pick up the pieces! That's how it works! Call the helpdesk, perhaps they can send you a floating person with common sense since obviously you were never given any in training.
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Seenenough
You try to play ball and do good by helping them out and filling in the new info for them and then end up stabbed in the back.
The next new set of managers we got at the other building, after the managers for ego land were what let go, fired, or whatever, were just as stuck up and didn't know a thing. I didn't think it was my place to chase them around when the needed to know how to get into and run Kronos, and other reports, they had the training they should have known how to operate it. They also didn't want any training by the great floaters we had either previous to this. I doubt if they got anything done after we left and they didn't last much longer than about 3 weeks I think I heard. And the next sets weren't that much better I guess.
So let Fortress move in all these hotel/motel yippies who think they know something but don't know a thing and see how far they get and how many more they have to keep hiring to replace them.
Companies used to say it costed a lot of money every time they had to hire a new person and they didn't like to do that. Guess Fortress is rich.o
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I told that guy You fired me over a piece of paper and now you want my help? I told him to call the regional and hung up.
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seenenough: and just think they probably don't have any account info or passwords either. Good for you, I hope it makes them feel like complete dummies if they have to keep calling the RD in. And of course if they don't have a clue with the paperwork or how things run this will only piss of the residents even more. The residents have lost respect for Holiday as it is, just makes them more disgruntled.
Good luck on your job hunt, hopefully you will find someone who will appreciate your hardwork and experience and at least treat you like a person.
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Oddly enough I have found a job, I bust my butt there, and I have been praised for doing so almost daily. Enjoying my new job and making better money.
I am nowhere near as stressed out as I was this time last year and do not need anti-anxiety meds to go to work. There is life after holiday!
I get treated like a person now not just a number on a P&L Statement. There are better companies out there..ones who actually care about who makes them successful. Its good to be away from that hell.
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more moving coming - so heads up.
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Linny: here goes, splat with a snowball.
How rounds of "Candyland" can one kid play and win without cheating I wonder. Just played 4 rounds last night with 4 yr old grandson, so much better than video games.
So whatcha' hear through the grapevine, more people being axed.
It's a wonder they don't try to have all the residents move to one property and close all the other empty buildings down.
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Really.
In the West Valley, they could close Vista de la Montana and Vista Del Rio and put everyone in the Madison.
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Well, just to let you know that we told them to stuff the job.
After a couple of weeks of being told the training was starting and then the location being shuffled around to different places around the country it was quite obvious that they have no idea what the hell they are doing.
(Even more so than what has been posted here).
If we had taken the offer our belongings would have been shipped to three different places as they couldn't decide on where to put us.
Apparently several people higher up the ladder have left/been let go and the void has created a huge problem with even less people knowing what is going on.
There are a lot of very unhappy people in this region and I can see a lot of vacancies have opened up very quickly with people leaving, creating a huge problem. I know of several properties with no management teams in place, three of them have no chef either.
Glad to say that we didn't spend a dime on this charade and that we have now secured a nice position elsewhere.
This is all in the South East by the way for those keeping score
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Fred: I am sorry it didn't work out, it is most likely a lot worse than it was a year ago so only those who have been there still could have commented about it. Good luck on your new job, I hope it works out a whole lot better than Holiday, and hopefully it will be a lot less stress. As you mentioned with out a chef, the work falls to the sous and night cook and management, a whole lot more work I am afraid.
If anyone decides to take a job it would be better to buy blowup mattresses or stay in the model apartment and be done with it. It is truly amazing that they couldn't figure out where to put you.
I am afraid Fortress has taken the wrong route with all the hospitality people, Holiday is a whole lot different. I guess they are trying to cut money again by cutting jobs to either eliminate the position, or to get cheaper people in. I just wonder how they are going to pass the inspection for Fannie Mae with no managers and missing chefs, etc. And with no long term employees the residents will lose what respect they have for corporate, and the chain has been broken to establish a link with new move-ins.
I hate to have told you so, I know a lot of people come across this site and think it is just a lot of whiny, disgruntled employees spreading lies and that all of us just didn't have what it takes to run a business like Holiday, so it only proves we all were right, Fortress got rid of all the old people and they don't have a clue what to do now.
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So, our time here has ended. I have lurked for months, following the threads of all 6 installments.At first, I would not have believed a lot of the outrage that caring people feel toward the changes happening in Holiday. I do recognize whining and finger pointing, but now know of the realities of how this group of 80 and 90 somethings are being soaked as cash cows. The rent rises, the VA Aid and Attendance fiascoes, the deterioration of knowledge and services......I just wish we had the power to make more of a difference. It is not to me the amount of marketing, but the prevalence of marketing over even simple talking to a resident, the "locking yourself away" to make cold calling rather than comfort a particular needful resident. It comes down to simply move-ins, not keeping people warm and safe and dry. I am probably repeating all that other former employees have said, but to me it bears saying that we truthfully tried to balance the holiday touch with the marketing of a business. It's a classic case of sales/marketing vs operations, but not a partnership. It's a war which all will lose, since you have to balance all: Retention is just as important as new sales, and without the both in harmony, marketing is expensive and fruitless. Good luck to all, and I will be watching and hoping for all's sake that the almighty dollar somehow takes a lesser role to preserving our seniors health and well-being.
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end of the journey: for some reason I don't think think anything is going to change, Fortress is still only after the $. Just look at the pyramid scheme they have going with move-ins informing them of all their friends and relatives and church family that can be invited to a party and then pressured into moving to a Fortress property like tomorrow or else. It's funny I looked around on one website that someone here provided from Cornell University and some info they had about the hospitality market; anyway it said that it would possibly take up to 18 months for a prospective elder age resident to decide to move in; this is what Fortress does not understand and Jack Callison, supposedly went to some of these symposiums. Where does it leave the employees who have been badgered and harassed constantly about move-ins. Why would someone want to move-in to some of the properties that look time worn and aged as I think DL Charles said "why would someone want to leave their house when it is a mansion." All management has been left with their hands tied too long with repairs and replacement to upgrade the properties to a better standard. Is Fortress teetering on the edge of collapse?
Gone is the home that people truly cared about and were proud to talk about with their friends thus spreading the word. Now the management is here one day and gone the next with no continuity and no accountability or direction for employees. A massive ship waiting for wreck and residents do not like the lack of security and safety from a stable management team; they will put up with one bad set if there is one good set at least to depend upon.
For all of us who have worked at Holiday and truly loved the job, the demise day by day is terrible of something that once was so great; it was a privilege to work for XL/Holiday. It had it's up and downs with employees and management issues, but not like it is now with clueless RD's. The residents also were not treated like this in the past, and the high rate rent increases were never heard of; now residents are forced out almost as soon as they get in. Manipulation of paperwork to reflect move-ins have come back to bite corporate in the proverbial butt, esp when the anniversary date is not what the resident was supposed to have; the residents are not stupid, esp when it comes to messing with their money.
Word of mouth is truly a torch to carry on.
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nighmarworld,
I sadly have to agree. We came in with high hopes we could make a difference, but apparently fell into the trap of trying too much to make real changes for the family that exists at a community. The residents try so hard in their own way to establish a home, make friends, and accept managers and co's into their lives, only to see the management change so consistently. Here, as in so many, we were the 5th manager set in the building in 1 year, along with 4 different sets of co's. I hated to see the dissapointment.....yet again in their eyes. I count the blessings in having known so many wonderful people, yet cringe at the thought that we were just another revolving door couple from their perspective. For us, we feel a burden has been lifted, and are excited to move on to new endeavors. I only wish I understood why it has to be this way for these poor souls.
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So many ways that the residents are cheated and the revolving door is up there in wrong.
Seniors need to have their lives be somewhat predictable and I can only wonder what toll it takes on them when they get to know a management team, only to have them disappear one day. Relationships are terribly important and I wouldn't be surprised if this causes a general depression.
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The elders get so depressed that some of them end up in the hospital and the the nursing home for rehab. Most do NOT return!! It is sad what they do to them. I have seen so many fail because of mangerial(?) changes. It is sad to live the last days of your life going through these changes!! Glad to see you Action!!!
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Hi Anon
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Reason #23,9813 for choosing a NON-Holiday community.
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We left the company recently and outside of missing the residents and great staff It has been great. I am now working for a company that makes me feel like apart of the company.
The company I work for has a real training program done by someone qualified to do the training. My DM has over 20 years experience in the business (certainly does not some like Holiday). It is great to work with a company that really cares about the employees. I put up with the worse leadership that I ever seen in my over 25 years experience. This company I work envoles the management in the process and really care about what they think. Holiday has the highest turnover of any company that I have ever seen somewhere around 60-70% just unreal.
Successful companies understand that you get there with great people something that Jack does not get people to him are just a means to an end and nothing more.
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Fortress last week reported first-quarter profit of $57 million, down 45 percent from a year ago. The stock has declined 81 percent since the firm's initial offering and gained 1.5 percent this year before today. (Taken from Bloomberg news of May 10, 2012 - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-10/fortress-to-close-commodities-fund-after-13-decline.html )
I have been hearing rumors of a possible Harvest/Holiday IPO sometime in June if the numbers can support such - which I do not for a minute believe can be supported. So far I have not heard a whisper of anyone actually being sent a prospectus. Investors are growing extremely nervous regarding hedge funds as the losses mount without any returns. A new day is ahead, but the ones who originally started the hedge funds have long since taken their money and distanced themselves.
When Fortress first took over the pattern became visible early on. I will give credit where due - Jack R. Callison, Jr. is brilliant! He has performed admirably with the dictates he was ordered to achieve. Rather a "corporate raider approach" to the situation, but it is apparently working. Buy the business, put someone in charge to gut it for the bottom line, then let that someone perform. Regardless of the hype constantly touted by the company it is, in my opinion, more like a feedlot operation for cattle than a senior citizen comfort business. I believe this is what happens when a family business is no longer controlled by the family. Once it becomes a commodity of investor owned shares the human equation goes out the window. A single owner, or a family owned, business will allow the profit margin to shrink in order to keep up the repairs required so the business can grow. Investors do not care about anything except a return on their investment. Investors do not get involved when a money management firm/fund is controlling the funds.
The sad part is that it would be so simple to do a complete 180 and have the company once again take the lead in the industry.
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Dl: there must be some buildings out there that are staying full in order to carry the load and make money or is it pretend profits I wonder. With some of the properties having so many empty apartments that have not sold after a year, it makes one wonder how they are making a profit. Perhaps off the new acquisitions such as McKinney, TX at least until the residents get their fill of being taken advantage of. And Fortress is not interested in the longterm stay of residents or how much grief they are causing them. I read on one website where Colson was top of the chain for 17 yrs in the housing of residents, this Fortress will never be able to say.
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I agree about Jack Callison. Met him personally and was impressed with his genuineness. I believe he believes in what he is doing. I do not envy his position. But then again he can't possibly not know what is happening and no matter what I would walk away with my pride if I were him. I continue to be baffled at the amount of people that have been adversely affected by Holiday Retirement and every day I tremble with trying to carry on after my two years with this company. But I know one thing, I will survive and I will walk away with my pride!!!!
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I was going to buy stock because it grew almost a dollar, but decided I would not be part of the cruelty to the residents. Someone is going to buy the company and the stock is going to go up then. I wish the law would step in and stop this madness!!!!
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I know of several who left our community after we left due to our moving and their being mad about it. One dear friend had a husband who had alzheimers and he went downhill after the move and ended up having to go into the nursing home section where they moved. I hear that so far the others are doing ok that could leave, one moved to an apartment and has help come in, some moved to another independent care community, and there was at least one who moved out of state; the others are hanging on but are very unhappy about the situation. After the EC was forced out the new one they have I have heard doesn't even plan on driving the bus.
Yes all the upset and turmoil affects them terribly, they have learned not to trust anyone and it has ruined the atmosphere that Holiday once had. In Fortress's eyes they are just numbers not a vital part of what it takes to make a community home.
Yes it is too bad we all and the residents couldn't buy a million shares of stock and take control.
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Pretty sad state of affairs - EC's not driving the bus (that was why bus drivers could only get 20 hrs per week, the EC was to pick up the slack), communities getting fined by health inspectors for kitchen violations (Managers would get food safety training to ensure safe food handling, turn over does have side costs), now the kitchens I see are filthy, the Managers don't care, or know, how things should be done to protect the health of the elderly, house keeping carts are totally inconsistent with OSHA guidelines. Can't wait until OSHA gets a hint that Holiday is way out of compliance, the fines will be outrageous.
Keep your Comm Mgrs focused on ghost move ins, Holiday. The health dept and OSHA fines are real dollars that will affect the bottom line (as well as all of those CSL/RSL bonuses paid out for ghosts). And the cost of an over 80% turn over rate will sure help with your IPO getting "top" dollar. Ha!
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Well I got my ServeSafe Certificate thanks to Holiday, not that I plan to use it. Don't know if they require one person of the managers to have it now or not. There was quite a lot of good information from the class that I would not have known, but you see on an everyday basis things that are violated and employees just look at you if you say anything about it; things like unlabeled food put into a different containers, I even knew that wasn't supposed to be done without the servesafe info, just lazy don't care people is all. I think there have been some on here who have said they have not had any help from the health department on issues in the kitchen; we seemed to always have an inspection about the time a new chef was hired. Usually the inspector would let you hurry and correct problems if you listened to them. It was a wonder on the one though we had 17 out of 25 violations and 18 would shut you down; the chef was a know it all and didn't even try to correct anything and didn't care or listen.
I am the one who tried to make sure the MSDS sheets were done for the housekeepers and chemicals that were stored in the kitchen storage area, but I bet it isn't done now.
I googled Fortress today and it was some good reading, guess they lost a lot of money on a Vancouver resort that didn't make it.
I just wonder if Fortress can explain any of what they have done and what sense it makes when you can't keep a building full. I think my 11 year old grandson who helped in a building when he was 4 would make a better boss than the idiots in Oregon and have a better idea of what needs to be done to keep the building going.
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Hello All, I am looking for a pre-marketing lease up team for an exciting new project in Knoxville, TN. woul d start in approx 6 months, project due to open Spring 2013. For information, go to www.RLCommunities.com or drop me a note at jflentje@rlcommunities.com.
Happy Mothers Day!
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It has now been more than 6 months since our leaving holiday after almost 5 years. We were Holiday believer's and when we first took the position we thought we had died and gone to heaven it was great! 4 years and 5 RD's later we were on the edge of insanity. To anyone who is considering a position with HOLIDAY...don't do it!
Let me share with you our 'breaking point' After 4 months of NO CO-Managers, we set one of those popular 'VA seminars' that we have to push down everyones throat, I actually had 7 tours scheduled for that same day. Awesome you say? Yes these were HOT leads and we all know how popular HOT leads are.....anyway, so I have 7 tours and guess what there is only myself and my husband to do them. So on Sunday I call my RD and my RSL and say hey guess what I have 7 tours, I need help, their reply "no problem we will get you help" you see we had also no CSL. The night before the seminar my RD calls and says 'sorry there is no one that can come and help you with the tours'....what???? you are kidding me???? so i crash course the chef and the maintenance person and our EC,I line out who they will tour and what they will be showing. The RSL calls and says "Hey make sure you are the one to close them!' WHY of course I can close all 7 tours since I have this handy little cloning machine???? The big day arrives and things are going well... until we have a power outage which means no elevators...great..... needless to say it was a fiasco, because of lack of help we only got one move in that day.
But here is the bottom line: I finally realized that HOLIDAY did NOT care, about our well being at all. Leaving us with out support but yet expecting us to perform. I was so close to a nervous breakdown at that point I told my husband " I just can't do this anymore, this job is going to kill me! We gave a two week notice,,funny in almost three days we had two sets of Managers there to take over, after we had spent 4 months alone..just existing.
It took awhile to 'defrag' from holiday. I waited patiently for holiday to call us and ask why we left, more proof that they really don't care. Now we have found a great company...let's just say our world is 'sunny' and we LOVE it! good luck to all of you, now I get to 'love' my residents in, instead of just moving them in! YES there are good honest companies out there!
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Exactly true. Been gone now for five years and now working with a good company. Fortress has destroyed what we all loved as the Touch". it is all gone now and we're glad to be gone from Fortress management. Feel sorry for the residents that live there now.
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Amen to this Don and all others who have watched Holiday sink day by day. The only good that came out of it is that we made many dear friends.
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Toknowholidayisnoholiday: our bus driver was good friends with the son of a move-in we had been working on, they had been in the same church for over 35 years. We talked to the son and planned for the bus driver to invite him and his dad for lunch, sneakery is what we were doing, no push it down dad's throat. The bus driver friend of son just casually showed them around, didn't mention figures or anything, said they would have to talk to the managers. Well not too long after they left for home, the dad calls back on his own without his son even knowing it and wanted to know what it would take to move-in. The only hold up we had was the VA Rep who drug his heels, the man finally moved in a month after we were let go. The one thing we were written up for was letting the bus driver give a tour and eat the meal with the guest. More of the hogwash drummed up reasons because she already had a plan too and the next Monday after we left they showed up I guess, looked at the pitiful apartment we existed in and left.
In the past everyone was supposed to be able to give a tour if needed and this method worked with this one person. It's just too bad the RD didn't have a clue.
Glad you found a great job where they love you for what you are because Fortress doesn't give a fig.
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I feel for you, there is no I in team since the bus driver had the connection with this person in my view you did exactly the right thing! What alot of RD's do not realize is that if you love your staff and take good care of them they won't want to lose you and they will want os see the community be successful! it's a no-brainer! good luck to you!
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Has anyone dealt with Senior Living Recruiters?
Can I ask that here?
Thanks.
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JoJo; I just looked up the website for them and it looks like they are possibly in the nursing part of the industry including home health, and sales and marketing. So it is most likely according to what skills you have as to where you might fit. They didn't state if they charge a fee to you or to the company you are placed with which in some cases would be great, the company is more dedicated to keeping a new hire if they match. It wouldn't hurt to give them a call or whatever. Let us know how it turns out. Just remember in most assisted or full care communities a degree is needed, not like Holiday where we just had managers and did not have to worry about the licensing part for nursing.
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Most places will train you themselves for whatever job you are applying for. In assisted living, unless you're a medication tech, you don't need to be licensed.
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I googled the phone number listed on the website. It's out of Aurora, IL and is owned by a Brad Wachter. I checked out his LinkedIn profile and he owns this company, but his most recent HR experience is with Hyatt Hotels.
That's a red flag to me. I answered a blind ad on Indeed.com for a resident manager team and the woman who placed the ad was recruiting for Holiday/FIG. I guess FIG is hiring headhunters as well as advertising on Working Couples, etc because their rep is so bad. Any of these are a red flag to me.
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Here's my weirdness. I quit Holiday under good standing. I know they are desperate for managers and I know they would hire us back. We both have really good jobs now and the stress level in our lives is SO much lower than it ever was while we worked at Holiday, but...
A part of me wants to go work there again. I want to outlast the horrible RDs and horrible FIG and help make it the way it used to be.
I suppose that's my ego acting up again...
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JoJo: I guess that is the beauty of the beast in wanting to outlast all the baddies. I think though really it is the love of being able to be around so many great elders that keeps you wanting to go back, the ability to keep them safe and living on their own for as long as possible. It is the drive that keeps you there to make the difference no matter how bad your day is. I suppose that is why some people choose certain careers over something a lot different. I miss all of them too and wish we were back.
But I doubt in this lifetime that things will ever change unless FIG takes a serious look at what they have done and then tries to go back some to the way it was.
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Does anyone know what happened to that wonderful RD Steve Ransome and that lovely training couple the Greens?
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where is everyone?. it seems like managers are being let go all over the place. Who running all the buildings where these managers are being let go. I heard that the managers that we worked with. Just before we were let go. Are now working in a different building that is only half full and for the two years that I worked at holiday was one of the worst buildings to fill. And they sent this . new couple, with only three weeks of training There.I don't think anythings is going change at holiday. It's business as usual just get the .mover-in and the regional directors will just use the excuses. I don't have the right managers in place so move them out and get some new ones in and thing will get better.
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Part of Holiday's problem is they are quick to get rid of managers and co's but then they are having a hell of a time getting people a-hired for below slave wages and b-getting 2 people pass a background check -- who usually wants to work for less than 20k a year(1person) and work 72-90 hours a week--not anyone with a good work history...just bums and know it alls. Thats whos running the buildings today. And yes they have been with the company for 3 weeks--they know the holiday touch better than anyone whos been there more than a year to 10 years.....mmm hmmm.
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that is how RD's justify and keep their jobs.....by passing the blame......I have seen this....when the Management Team SHOULD be the most valued Employee, I mean after all aren't the Managers personally responsible for the companies assets??? THE RESIDENTS!
This could be a whole different spin on the movie "The Expendables"
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I would like to know a regional chef, who doesn't want to be be a regional any longer can just go a head and get rid of a sou chef in his region (Mid west) so that he can have a job WITH OUT THE PRESSURE OF HOME OFFICE ,when the sou chef at the location has been with Holiday for 8 years with no complaints. IF HE DOESN'T LIKE BEING A REGIONAL WHY DID HE ASK FOR THE jOB. pLEASE IF ANYONE FROM CORP. HAS A ANSWER OR COMMENT PLEASE POST.
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Christina: that is pretty low for anyone to do, I don't know how corporate let him get away with it either, talk about lowlife scum. It also sounds like double jeopardy to be able to fire someone else and then hire yourself into that position; where is corporate at while this is happening.
I am sorry for your sous chef, this devastating to him/her for this to happen, I doubt if he/she has any recourse, I hope he/she can file unemployment at least and hopefully there will be something out there a lot better for him and perhaps a more appreciative company will hire this person.
How low can Fortress go.
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Our RD was visiting recently and left his flash drive in one of ur computers, so yes, I decided to see what was on it.
Lots and lots of porn. And not just pictures, but very graphic movies.
I just left it there and later in the day he came back by and got it.
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HE NEEDS TURNED IN ASAP. THBIS IS BS.
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Wonder if there's some way for the network to see that this was on your computer. Hope that they don't think it was you, yikes! If anyone else knows whether this is possible or not, please chime in.
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Dear DL Charles,
As a 4 year veteran of the "Fortress Touch", and an reader of your blog, I am going to try to offer some closure for current and former managers. I also hope this will help any newly recruited managers make the right decision.
Fortess is owned and run by the people who ruined our economy. No doubt some of these people graduated from Harvard Business School, the one bastion of higher learning that has the most to do with the US's ailing economy. Along with our current and past lawmakers these people have stolen our children's future with the bad, greedy, decisions they have made. The Fortress crew is part of this group of bad, greedy, decision makers.
As a manager of a Holiday Community this is surely was your 2nd or 3rd career in your work history. It was my 5th. As an employee I always got high ratings from my former employers. I am confident that the majority of the former and present managers who survived also feel their work history was good before Holiday. I sense when I read some of these heartfelt blogs that there is a feeling of guilt at being let go or quitting Holiday. There should be no feeling that you let yourself or the residents down by leaving or being forced to leave.REMEMBER, this is a terrible company that makes Enron look good. Fortress will keep firing and corrupting the managers until they reach their goal of a management staff with no morals. Kinda like the folks who run our government and our banker friends on Wall Street.
I do not know any former or current managers who contribute to this blog, but I do know that you are good people.
Don't forget that.
I would also like to offer some advice to current and newly recruited managers.
1. Do not trust anyone. Especially new co-managers who claim to be very religious. It was my experience that these over the top religious co's will do their best to under mind all of your efforts in the name of their God. They have been taught by most RD's to back stab their managers to get to be a manager.
2. Do not trust anyone. Not your staff, especially your EC, not your residents, not your RD, not your DD, not anyone from home office. If you have a dog you can trust your dog, but watch him closely.
It gets kind of lonely sometimes.
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JoJo: if you ask me the flash drives are capable of spreading viruses to the computer too.
What a sick outfit, that is so sick, and how did he plan on watching that on a company computer with people around, and why would anyone even think to bring something like that to work.
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Jackson: that is a good question, I wonder if it would go into temporary files. I've not used flash drives so I don't know myself.
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Yeah, that's pretty crazy and I wouldn't want to have it on my work station. I'm going to do some research to see if I can find an answer. If you think about it, the RD can look at this stuff in any of the buildings and never be blamed for it. What a creep!
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I use flash drives quite a bit and they are basically "free agents". One attaches the flash drive, load or download to/from the drive, or simply open it to view files. Files are not automatically transferred to the host computer. It takes a deliberate command to load files into a folder or temp.
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Thanks for clarifying, that makes sense. Now if the computer identifies the flash as a hard drive of sorts, it seems to me that the only way head office could see it is if it were plugged in and they were accessing the computer remotely. Still a crappy thing to travel around with on work time.
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JoJo = we had managers that we know must have had something on someone - otherwise they could not have been able to last - even tho they have moved on - they are still with the company. They got away with so much and I assume they are still doing it.
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Did their last name start with an "L"?
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I feel so bad for all of these new Co/s - they are lead to believe in so much that is not true. Sent to communites with managers who are ego maniacs amd worse. No wonder the turn over is so high...
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You may find this article from Veteran Aid interesting. It appears someone in authority is finally addressing the scams being perpetrated on our veterans. Does anyone doubt who the "very large company in particular with properties located throughout the US" is? Note the mentioned partnership with "A Place For Mom". I am not an adovcate of "A Place For Mom" as we had nothing but problems with them while with Holiday.
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=778652f282e51c3fd475d85ea&id=a63d449d21
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If asked, I would have nothing good to say about APFM. I have worked with them in and out of Holiday and never with what I consider honorable results.
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Saved the link to send to some residents and pass on names to the share your stories. I have patients that were duped by Holiday!!!
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Thanks for posting the link DL. I think it is about time that Holiday gets it's butt kicked by the government. Initially this program was handled very well by Holiday when Mrs. Adrian Rose introduced it to Holiday and handled it. It is sad to see how Holiday has mishandled it over the past couple of years just because of greed. In the meantime there are veterans out there that have been horribly wronged by Holiday's greed.
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I just hung up the telephone after a conversation with Senator Wyden's office (1-202-224-5244). The call was to thank him for having the courage to bring the VA A&A scams out into the open. Imagine the pressure he must be under from the lobbyists wanting to protect their interests. Do your part by picking up that telephone or emailing him with your support. It does not matter what state you are in - your voice counts.
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DL,
Thank you for sharing my newsletter,and for calling the Senator's office, and encouraging others to do the same. Let's hope it will make a difference.
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It is indeed my pleasure! We expect our vets to offer their all, we even demand it - then we as a nation strive to forget how they sacrificed. In my humble opinion anyone who scams a veteran, especially in their old age, deserves the harshest penalties available. Why is it allowed? It is because the public does not "speak up" in a concerted manner. One voice is only a whisper which is not heard - a thousand voices becomes a roar.
Bookmark it - http://www.veteranaid.org
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Every American should be on the steps of the VA demanding that our veterans are informed of the benefits and proper care given. There is a price for silence. If you have been to my site, then you know that indeed one voice can make a difference. All our voices together can make a greater difference. DL can you private email me at vethelp@veteranaid.org?
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The chickens always come home to roost! I can't believe it has taken so long for this to come out. We have been saying since the start of A&A that this was a house of cards that would collapse.We were actually told by an rsl to move in a vet. and his wife even though they were not qualified because of too many assets. Her words were they have enough mony to afford to live here without it. We were just floating at the time so we don't know the outcome but this is not an isolated case this is and was the company model to scam A&A. To be fair we did see some residents who were helped by A&A but almost without exception the applications were falsified to get the resident moved in.
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P.S. I would like to hear a comment from General Sheldon on this.
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In Alabama they are closing down 17 VA offices throughout the state effective June 1st or 2nd because of lack of funding.
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I think a large part of our VA A&A did not get approved before the person either died or ended up in a higher level of care facility or just plain jumped ship while we were still there. The process on most had been started before we were at the property and it was taking so long for the approval process to be approved for those who looked like they would get it. Then there where those whose paperwork who had not even been submitted, or lost??..
Fortress did it to themselves it looks like. They would have been so much better off having reduced the rent to begin with and rented the apartments till things got better instead of buildings 25%-50% empty. If I had the money and would qualify for VA A&A, I would not mind living at a property when the time comes, but not as they are run now with all the juggling acts that go on with the residents being last place.
APFM may have had a couple of move-ins credited to them, but the rest of the referrals we had were a waste of time and chasing, so many were very low income, I wished we could have helped them more; and then there were the ones you kept calling or trying to hook-up with on home visits So let's hope the VA gets better results.
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I think you are mistaken. They were moved in and told that they would not have toworry. Holiday took advantage of them and I know quite a few that had to move out and are now in nursing homes. do you still work for Holiday??
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DL I thought there was a frontdoor at one time too, but like you say it pulls up real estate now.\\
The glassdoor.com if you pull it up, it has Holiday listed as a featured company at the moment on the 1st page with it stating that Holiday is "a wonderful place to work", yada, yada, with your birthday off or double pay if you have to work (oh boy when did that start), then you click on the reviews and pull-up good old Jack with 12% rating based on 48 reviews, the company rating at 1.9 based on 75 reviews, and the employees are dissatisfied. Talk about lies on the 1st page. And it looks like there have been some more very good reviews left recently to help influence the next influx of lambs to the slaughter.
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Thanks for clearing that website up. My oopsy
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I'm really surprised that people are getting billed for the deferred amount while awaiting A&A approval. I was a CSL and when in training, we were specifically told that if they were turned down, the deferred amount would be "waived". Of course they then would have to start paying the market rate and honestly, most of the seniors I saw were already stretched to the max as it was and wouldn't be able to come up with the difference. So sad... at a time when they need continuity and the feeling of home and safety, they are uprooted and have to move somewhere else. This is really hard on many seniors and just sad.
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So who thinks that this ipo is really going to happen??? They have already missed I think two target dates. Now we hear that all communities need to be 95% in the next few months. I do not see that as possibility at all - even tho they will be on all mangers a sales people like the hounds from hell. Making lives miserable. Some communities are just not in areas that have a base of people who can afford it or they have major competition. The only way that most got big increases in residents was because they pushed the VAA, that is no longer being deferred, so, that scheme no longer works. They waste big advertising money on these almost useless post card mailings. The cold call list are very out dated. Take the money you spend on all of these RSL's. SSL's and so on and give it to the communities. A CSL "can" be helpful and they should be resposible for filling the buildings, not managers, managers have whole other list of jobs to do - ie people, buidings, staff etc. What happened to good ole horse sense??? All we have are a bunch of horses asses!
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Linny: Look at Facebook, it was an almost fiasco I guess when they went public.
I really don't know how they expect to fill the buildings, it's the same old same old that has been going on for the last 4 yrs; I bet we'll see more managers being replaced as the heat hits. I don't see the sense of them going public if they can't keep the buildings filled. It is probably a wonder they haven't gone belly up yet.
I just had some great news too; the EC where we had been who quit because of harassment has won her unemployment retroactive back to when she quit. She took it to the 2nd appeal, and the judge was not happy at all about Holiday and would not even address the person (who is pretty high up) by her name, just by Holiday. Guess he gave her what for also with what the Holiday employees pulled too.. and that they needed to get their act together. Have to wait till later tonight to find out more. One strike for the employees.
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sadlydisappointed: I pulled your comment because it was a personal attack against individuals without any documentation. This is not how it is done. dlcharles
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Wow does one miss A LOT by not logging on more often!
Loved the read about Golden Oaks.
Still working hard and loving what we do, in spite of the push for move ins and the brow beating for move outs.
sigh
This is such a hard economy. I have been there without the steady paycheck and appreciate the one I currently receive.
I am thrilled to be in a position, unlike the one I left, and BTW those two bozo's are STILL there, to be in a position to make a senior's life better.
Happy Summer Everyone
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Some of us residents have been most concerned about the push to fill apartments with VA A & A applicants, with the continually visiting civilian also pushing how to hide additional funds. Many think possibly a scam by those pusher companies, when it is really intended for needy veterans and spouses.
June 6 Portland Oregonian has interesting coverage by NY Times, in part: "Vets' pension program open to abuse ---the system is ripe for abuse, including by financial planners and lawyers who help well-off retirees qualify for benefits by transferring or hiding assets.
More than 200 firms have sprouted up across the country to help veterans 'restructure' assets so they can appear indigent and therefore eligible for tax-free pensions. ----The GAO also found that some firms overcharge veterans for services or sell them financial products that are potentially harmful, like trusts that limit a veteran's access to the money."
Although all senior retirement facilities offer this
plan, Holiday really pushes it. Many of us feel that takes the available $$ away from the truly needy veterans and spouses, and we find that offensive.
We were delighted to see this article, and I feel the need to share it.
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Hi Digger
I understand your concern and would like to offer my opinion. I believe that all vets who served should be afforded the opportunity to get the benefit. To be denied because they worked hard and accrued money and assets over time is ridiculous. Why should they be denied because they have something to show for years of hard work and sometimes sacrifice? If the federal government would re-think their position and make it an equal opportunity for all, then people who may seem "opportunistic" in getting them the benefit, won't get it. Their stance creates the need for creative diversion and while I may be somewhat opposed to their tactics, it gets vets with money the benefit. They should not be denied. I also am irked that they created loopholes for all with the Vietnam - serve one day in the country, and the service dates. Some miss out all together because they miss the qualifying dates for one day. How about those who served after a war ended, and cannot get the benefit. They signed on the dotted line. A conflict could have arisen at any time. Why should those vets be denied? If you served and were honorably discharged, everyone should have access.
Just my opinion.
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D to I, I share your Sentiment about our Vets who have sacrificed so much for our freedom. But the aid and attendance benn. program we are talking about is a safety net program designed to specifically help vets who are running out of money to maintain their current living conditions in a safe and secure manner. The rules and regs. specifically state that the money which the vets are asking are reimbursements for expenses for which they are allready incurring. Holiday has made criminals out of our vets by having them sign applications which are false. I remember a discussion with my father who has passed on since , about applying for the A&A bennifit and he said that he was not going to lie just to get a little extra money.He and my mother both had enough to get to the end in fine style. This whole thing is about greed plain and simple
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I agree that all vets who served either in peace or war should be able to qualify for this benefit equally. But it is for those who are financially not able to afford the care they need to insure their health and safety. I think they should also drop the age limit too. There are a lot of vets out there who are younger than 65 who are not able to work due to health reasons and are really too young to go to a nursing home.
I know they were pushing the deal with the assets, but the residents who we had all were pretty near broke except for their social security they got in.
As far as assets a person can have some, even a house if it isn't sold and still be able to perhaps qualify. I am afraid I just didn't meet any residents who had to worry about hiding assets.
As far as the VA goes, I was 13 when my dad died, there were 5 of us kids. Mom received benefits for 4 kids only from the VA; Mom remarried in 1972; when I married in 1974 it continued for 4 kids; by 1976 she was down to 1 kid; my youngest brother died in 72, and 2 more left the nest. This last brother was 16 in 1976; the VA came back to mom and said because she had remarried she owed money back to them for my one brother who they had paid benefits on, and they no longer paid the benefit for him. This benefit was paid because of our dad and had nothing to do with the step-dad. She paid them $5.00 a month till she paid whatever the amount was. This is the VA for you.
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I want to share a link to the Senate hearings held this past Wed, June 6th regarding "Pension Poachers".
http://www.senate.gov/fplayers/jw57/commMP4Player.cfm?fn=aging060612&st=1194&dur=0 Pay close attention to what happens to Veterans Financial.
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I am very pleased to see this. I was a private caregiver in Nevada and watched a lot of shady happenings. I worked privately for residents during the big push. If you need anything from me, ask DL for my email and I will, gladly, help you!
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I never did figure out if her husband is incarcerated because of his dealings as owner of the company or how she took control. And what companies does she work with in the retirement industry. Will there be more on this?
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Yes, he is incarcerated for fraud against a senior, and he is no longer allowed to write financial policies, so they put the company in her maiden name in 2008 as a way to imply they were under new management. If you do a google search for his name you will find quite a bit. Here is one link regarding the charges.
http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/08D0889P.pdf
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To Ten Years and Nightmare
I hear you and I agree. I just wish there would be some benefit for ALL.
To Smile
I am very familiar with RLC - you are lucky if you get hired on there.
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Does anyone know about Resort Lifestyle Communities?? We have been with Holiday for a very long year. I think that we might be fired because we have stood up for the residents and the managers did not like what we had to say! Needs some help
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I know of a Marketer an RD and a manager couple who works for them and they love it.
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I've heard good things about RLC (Resort Lifestyle Communities).
They seem to be growing at a rational pace.
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Hello, Am I the only one who finds the 3 chime and the announcement offensive??? This is supposed to be "INDEPENDENT RETIREMENT LIVING" yet we have to annouce every activity and interrupt everyone's day - several times a day??? If they wanted to come to the activites they would come!!! Can you say NURSING HOME? Also if you ever offered anthing interesting THEY would come, if you stopped moving in people who were nursing home ready THEY would come. OK - just had to say it.
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Linny: you would never win one way or the other: there's the ones who complain if you don't announce it; the ones who complain if you do announce it; the ones who couldn't hear you and call the office 5min after the announcement, it took them that long to get out of their chair or bed; the ones who crab if you have music on in the building because they can hear it in there apartment; the ones who want the music on; and then there are those who just plain forget if you don't announce it, kinda like I went into the kitchen for what syndrome with some of us who still has part of a memory going. Just remember we all will be in the same boat someday, I know I think I am half there already".0)
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I never did it.
We had announcements at the meals and put up flyers for big events.
They liked that.
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JoJo: we did the announcements like that too and put flyers up also, but still the usual ying/yang on the chimes, esp if there was someone in the building who had been there a long time and knew better.
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I worked at Holiday for just a couple of short months as a CSL last year. My community was dealing with low census numbers long before I got there.
All of my personal feelings from what I saw and heard in my short time there have been affirmed by all of these various comments.My RSL was an absolute jacka__ and had absolutely no clue about anything. It's all about numbers and nothing else. They say they care about the residents but that is a blatant lie. They know damn well that staff turnover that is that high is extremely tough on seniors. They don't care though.
My RSL said he wants a CSL with a 'used car salesman' mentality (his exact words) and when someone comes in for a tour, you don't let them leave without a signed rental agreement. He said I had a consultative selling style which might work in some industries, but that's not what he's looking for. When I got fired, we got into it. I've never done that before, but what the hell!! It felt good. I gave him a good piece of my mind. It's so sad, so very sad how that company is run. They way they do rent increases - especially for residents who have been there for years and years. I understand that you have to raise rent occasionally - cost of food, cost of utilities,etc. But please, don't tell me that things have gone up by THAT much. Anyway, it's a shame, it really is. I have been in sales and marketing for almost 20 years and have won numerous sales awards and international trips for sales achievements and success. I'm not saying I'm the best all time salesperson in the world, but I'm pretty darn confident in my abilities and being able to talk with people, especially seniors and their families about such an important decision for them.
Like it or not, but the economy (real estate market) HAS affected many senior's decision on moving into a retirement community or not - especially an independent community. If something happens health wise to a senior, then they usually need to move straight into an AL of some sort.
Anyway, if anyone at any level is considering applying for a job there - don't do it.
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Car salesmen indeed...that's putting it lightly. Take their wallet out of their pocket and don't let them have it back until they sign AND if they back out it's because you didn't give them the key right away or stay on top of them every single day, having everyone call them and get them by the throat to show up at events and meals...a 87 year old resident recently said " I felt like I couldn't leave unless I wrote him a check and signed the contract. I just wanted to go home." How incredibly shameful. I'm wondering how many times you can do that in a town before the community knows that our tactics are hardcore and seniors avoid us at all costs. Word travels.
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Yeah it is shameful. It was a blessing in disguise when I got canned, even though I'd only been there for 7 weeks and with 5 move ins. But as my former RSL told me, he's looking for a CSL that can do 8 to 10 move ins per month! Well, wouldn't we all. But not with that piece of crap data base in YGL that I was working with. My first day on the job I noticed that so many 'leads (what a mis-used word that is) had been called 3 to 4 times per month and there's notes in the system that they have no future plans in moving in the foreseeable future. That's called harassment. I got together with the Mgr's and the Co's and said 'hey, this has got to stop'.......which they already knew, but were forced by the RSL to make those daily phone calls. I knew the only way that we'd bring in some new people through the front doors was by me networking out in the field, building those relationships, etc. And that takes time. Even the events that we did in my short time there, pretty much the majority of the people that showed up to them were the same old people - either they knew someone in the community, or were there just for the free meal, which is another topic.
By the time I left there, I felt like I had to shower - I just felt so dirty. But I stuck to my core values and consultative selling style. I know that my community pissed off so many potential clients that down the road when they do eventually move into a retirement community, it won't be with the one that was harassing them. Can you blame them?
I should have known something was up because my training class (in Salem/head office) was an absolute joke. The trainer had no control over the class at all.
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Wow, I could have written that. As horrifying as working for this company was, I guess reading this make me feel as I wasn't alone. Most of the posts here relate to managers but us CSL's got dumped on just as much.
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CSLs got it bad...I know one that fixed contracts and skipped over the details saying it was NV law. LIE!!! Another one was such a wreck that I thought she was going to drop over dead!!!!
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The CM here said that FIG (not Holiday but FIG) was holding a conference call with them concerning "On Boarding..." Anyone heard this? Not understanding why the Investment Group would be that involved in the everyday operation... ?
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I just read the entire 21 pages of the 'Saga of Golden Oaks'. I only wish that something like that would be impossible to happen, but in my 7 short weeks with the company, I know it's all too possible that it did indeed happen. I feel so sorry for the residents. If I were a son of a resident and I noticed that crap happening, I'd be sitting down and talking with my Mom and/or Dad and convincing them to move out into something better and more stable.
It's just so sad, so incredibly sad that this crap happens in this industry. The wonderful residents deserve far, far better than what most of them get. There may be some decent communities vs Golden Oaks, but still. There is such a high turnover in the Mgr's and the Co's that it's just sickening. I was a CSL. I wish I had the money to start my own retirement community. I certainly know what NOT to do in operating one.
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It is too bad people can't turn around and sue FIG for harassment after getting on YGL. I think if the customers were more up on the lingo, all they would have to say is do not call me again and they would have to be taken off the list; too bad this word can't get out. And the circle of calling and pestering them continues.
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Fancypants: I wonder what they are considering as the "On Boarding" aspect. Is the community a filled or half-filled building. If it is a good community maybe they are trying to figure out why even though I wouldn't hold my breath on this one too long.
Can't wait to hear since it will most likely be more torture tactics for the managers and co's. Or perhaps it is more head rolling.
Gosh how bad can it get. And now the VA Aid & Attend is not going to be a money making scam for them, what are they going to do.
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OMG they will employ even more pressure...as if that's even possible. There needs to be a massive walkout and the media alerted beforehand. Hell, all a reporter has to do is read this blog to get a pretty big story. They did a huge piece on the Seattle times just over a year ago about a place for mom and honestly, this is far more egregious than that. The key is finding a way to ensure the residents are ok and gather enough employees to participate. Sadly, when your housing is tied in, it puts a whole different spin on things.
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Yeah, you're absolutely right about CSL's getting dumped on too. You still working for the company? I'm from the Seattle area too. I know what article you're talking about in the Seattle Times too about A Place for Mom. I read it myself. It really makes me sad for the residents - far more than myself. The turnover in the staff is absolutely unbelievable and as soon as I heard about that, it concerned me. Sure enough....the rest if history.
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No, I'm long gone but had similar experiences to yours. I've been working for many years and most of them in Sales. I have NEVER experienced the psychological abuse and manipulations that I experienced with this company. The RSL was completely out of their depth and not once helped me but was always there to tell me I was doing something wrong, even though I was doing what I was told - it was never enough, it was never appreciated. The RD was a moron with delusions of grandeur and a god complex.
The thing is that I'm glad that I left... if only for my sanity and self-respect. You were spared pretty quickly, be thankful for that small mercy. I walked into a community that was completely broken and was the first to go when things weren't happening fast enough. At that time, there was already a problem in that the surrounding community knew that the place was somewhere to go for free meals and activities but they'd never move there. The poor residents were subject to a revolving door of employees that I think they finally gave up trying to connect with new people. That being said, it's probably not much different than most of the other communities owned by Holiday. Sad and not the most shining moment in my working career.
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I think it is to make sure, with the feds investigating, that everyone gets their story straight!!!
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Jackson: I am sure you got dumped on too; we didn't have a CSL (I guess this was what he was) within arms reach at our location, just an off site in a whole different area, and really I was never sure what he actually did. I know he took care of the postcard for a different building for an event; he got the date changed on a postcard for a va a&a that we couldn't even get the rep to come and talk at because he had already been there the month before and wasn't coming back again that soon, one of those events that corporate wakes up with the light bulb on in the morning and decides to have happen no matter what; we did the event ourself and got written up over it also because the speaker wasn't there.
Yes others have talked about a massive walk out too, but the residents would be the ones who suffer, and it would be like a hospital that is unattended, very dangerous if something were to happen; the liability I think would be taken at a higher consideration.
I think what everyone should do is have a protest with marchers walking around the building with posters waving so everyone can see, even the residents could join in then; I know quite a few who would have loved doing that. Then call the newspapers with the report of spotted marching and protesting; heck they do it with everything else now days. The only thing is they most likely would replace everyone involved if an employee; and if even residents were involved only they would suspect employee involvement. Perhaps ex employees would be a better choice to spearhead this.
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I'd be up for that. I've been gone for awhile but still can't let go of the fact that this company gets away with what they do.
Funny how that works. Crap all over your employees, fire, hire, fire... you've got yourself a lot of folks who are willing and happy to step up.
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Richards; what did the article say, was it about APFM or what?
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Nightmareworld, here's the link:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013650485_seniors12.html
Quite the bad press in the Pacific Northwest and did hurt them.
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Jackson: At least you have your sanity back being gone. It is just too bad the corporate whiz kids don't see what they have done to the company, but gee most of all of them are all newbies who have no clue what the old days entailed and the history or reasoning of the touch and how to accomplish it. The worst thing is the breakdown of guidelines and rules because there is such a turnover where no one is staying, so who cares to enforce it. The hotel/motel mentality has corrupted the business; they don't know that it takes up to 6 mo. sometimes to gain the trust of the residents, they just don't jump in and trust you till you have proven your worth; if you make it out of the fire they will follow you anywhere (of course there are always a few of the die hards who still want to be butt-butts as residents, but in long run we made more friends than enemies I think; now with the revolving door going on I don't think the residents spread a good word at all. I think CSL's can work side by side with managers and co's, but it has to be a group effort without all the bull FiG has pulled and everyone being on the same page at least part of the time. FIG thinks they have the world by the horns, but I think now it is turning around and biting them back, look at the VA A&A and how it has been mishandled and twisted, and now it is nationwide on the internet, even if not specifically mentioned, I am sure a lot of people might connect the dots on it and draw conclusions. Personally I think the VA deal was great if a person qualified for it, it gave them a safe, secure place to live as long as they could afford a caregiver if necessary as they aged in place. The trucking industry is the next best hire, suck into lease trucks fleace market; so there are 2 bad places to hire onto.
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Nightmareworld, I know that some places don't have the same culture but in my community, we were a team and worked really hard together trying to get things working smoothly so potential residents would want to live there. It was a HOT MESS!
I agree with you about the VAA program, specifically for those who really needed it. Unfortunately the company looked at it as a cash cow to be played and didn't really give a whole lot of thought to the seniors that they targeted. Just a way to get move ins and not always in an honorable way. We had the monthly seminars and some residents would show up and make comments about what a scam it was, I used to get so frustrated because my ability to get move-ins was tied to making that happen but who could blame them? They were tired of the community constantly being used for marketing while their own welfare (beyond what was in the control of the management team)didn't mean squat. The food was horrible (if not dangerous to those with compromised systems), the place filthy and the turnover extremely high. All requests to correct that, fell on deaf ears. We were told that if we were to increase our census, we'd get what we wanted. How the heck are you supposed to rent apartments at that rate, in a building that was rife with problems... especially when the competition in the area was far superior. It was a joke and I've come to realize that not all of senior housing is like this - fortunately.
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To illustrate how things were always for potential move-ins and not the residents. I organized an ice cream social and couldn't figure out why there weren't very many residents there. I walked around the common areas and asked various people and they said that they didn't realize that they were invited and thought it was for outside people only. God, that mad me sad. They pay their rent every month, put up with all the crap and they deserved something nice. Word got around and we announced it again and got quite a few residents down to partake. They had so much fun and I didn't give a damn that only 4 people from the outside showed up. Yeah, that made me a bad Holiday employee, I know.
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Jackson: You are correct with the feeling of the residents who felt left out; our building sponsored the Chamber of Commerce one round in the evening with a buffet type snack foods prepared by our then chef; the residents didn't like it at all, we had one little lady with the usual memory problems get at least 3 pieces of cheesecake, the bad feelings were vented by the residents. The next one we sponsored was a group that met once a month at different places; we had it at lunchtime and it worked out pretty good doing it that way; chef got times confused though and we almost didn't have a meal.
You must have been at a really bad building that had no one caring about the appearance; I know our sore spot was the aged and worn torn apartments that needed new cabinets and floors, you can't rent something that looks 20 yrs old. We fought and squabbled to get what we got done on that building before we were transferred. In that time frame the building managers made a bonus on money not spent, after they left (some of the 1st waves of the older employees being replaced) they quit paying bonuses like that. We ourselves didn't care if a bonus was paid or not on things like this, if the place needed fixing it was worth fighting for. And now with no income coming in I am sure there are plenty out there who have been told the same as you were, as if you have control over the economy. If you sell trash you'll never attract move-ins in my opinion.
Our food wasn't as bad I don't think as I have heard some comment on here and I just wonder how if the buildings are following the menu do you get greasy and unfit food. Most everything I ever saw fixed was in the steamer, or oven baked, or once in a while grilled. About the only thing which was cooked in grease was the fried catfish on Fridays, once in a blue moon french fries or okra and chicken. I believe if anyone was eating at home they would most likely be eating a worse diet out of a box, or junk food, both loaded with sodium. I know one community didn't like gravy on anything and the next couldn't get it often enough. Managers having the knowledge of what is going on in a kitchen makes a difference and both they and the chef should have control over it if the employees are not taking care of business, I know that a lot of kitchens do not get the cooperation needed in even washing the stove or flat top down, it's like it is somebody else's job. With all the main employees being replaced constantly it leaves the whole building open for no authority or chain of command and no accountability. I really don't know how they will pass the next inspection by Fannie Mae for their loan.
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I hope they don't pass the inspection for their FNMA loan. It'd be wonderful if they were eventually forced to sell to someone who would run the company how it's suppose to be run and take care of the residents AND the employees. As someone mentioned to me above, I should be thankful that my Holiday Retirement 'sentence' was only 7 weeks. So for that, I am grateful.
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Well we could offer 4 Billion lock, stock and barrel. It is only 2 million each employee meaning 4 managers per building, plus Chef and approx 500 support staff. Hell I think they would jump on an offer like that.
Any takers?
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It appears if everyone had been doing the paperwork the right way and not listening to FIG, they would be better off now. Never do anything you wouldn't want your mother to know about.
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Jackson: I read the article about APFM, no wonder it was so hard to get anywhere on most of the leads they sent us. A large part were very low income (this was before VA A&A was available), some were not health qualified and would have needed a caregiver; I can't say that we didn't try to contact them and even in some case try to mention other places they might check into that they could afford.
Bed placement is a great idea, but it needs to be managed in a way to benefit everyone and not waste all our time chasing ghost leads.
And now APFM is linked into the vet org how cozy.
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Nightmareworld, you are so right! The vast majority of leads were low income and there were some real hardship stories there. It was so sad to feel as if I had nothing to offer in the way of help.
It seemed like if people had money, they also had family to help them find a good place. It was my experience that people called APFM because they had run out of ideas and/or options. Obviously such people weren't a good fit for Holiday unless they would qualify for A&A.
The sad truth is there aren't many places for poor seniors who can't live on their own...at least the places where you'd want a human being to live in.
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Jackson: It is sad that there are not that many choices for low income, and esp in a safe environment. That is where, because of the profit APFM needs, they fail; we could mention other places if known that the person could check out, of course sometimes they were already at one of these places but wanted the help of the meals being fixed ,etc that they were getting to hard to do not including having to go and hit the store also.
With the internet being available though, even family can go hunting and run across the websites with info and placing info now, so it makes it a lot easier for them to shop without running all over town, even though in a lot of cases it was people who did not qualify; what the heck it's free to them why not use it I imagine they think, the only thing is APFM should have been getting more info before directing the leads to us, it's just a waste of time otherwise for both.
That is why I liked the one area we were in with the networking we got into; it helped us showcase our community with new members even just by introducing yourself to them and inviting them to stop by for a tour; there were a lot of people who didn't even know what we were about that had even been in the area for years; this in turn left them to perhaps mention us if they ran across a person in need. The Chamber of Commerce was a whole different game; it mostly was you pat me on the back and I'll pat you on the back, but even there you hope to meet one person in need or who can refer you.
I think the dr offices in our area have been filled in though by unhappy, disgruntled residents; there are too many nicer places and some lower prices that they can direct people to; not including all the move-outs they had after we left to these nicer, lower priced place.; I just love it.
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For a change of pace I ran across this interesting website, www.familytales.org that has family letters from way back when posted, even one possibly from my husband's side of the family in 1861 (will have to save this for another project for the future),
This one I am reading is on the
1906 earthquake by a Dr.s wife,unknown age.
To get to the letter go to the website and click on Collections link at the top of the page, this will pull up the different groups, then go to the 1906 Eartquake, then to Eleanor Watkins to unknown;
"The death rate will never be known, but it is guessed at 2,000. This is comparatively small, when there are 300,000 homeless. If the earthquake had happened two or three hours later, there would have been thousands of deaths in the business buildings and on the streets....
When they spilled out we had to stop and rope it over again. Jim and I carried the lighter things, and blankets and overcoats. And we were only three of thousands. I forget what happened after that day and night, except watching the fire, listening to dynamite and feeling little earthquakes. I had six hours of sleep in 48, in broken naps. I have never yet taken our papers, and what is left of the money out of my dreams...."
She has a very long extensive letter of the events as lived by she and her husband. They were lucky they had $200.00 saved in the house to take with them. Others weren't so lucky, and I will have to finish reading to see if their bank was covered for the 600.00 they had there.
The Buhl furniture is an interesting topic too that she mentioned if you look it up on www.wikipedia.com and also click on Boulle in the article for the link there for André Charles Boulle. Some fantastic pieces were created.
Reading the letter from a 1st hand perspective makes me feel blessed and we have really been blessed in this century compared to then.
Hope you don't mind my posting it, but things like this are not read very often I am sure, and for it to be a 106 yrs old is something with the same things going on in life as nowdays, just a different pace was all.
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I just want to say THANK YOU to all of you for sharing your experiences. I have been contacted by a recruiter four times in the last week and before I agreed to an interview I wanted to do some research & I am sure glad that I did. I think I will be declining the request for an interview!
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What position in the company are you being recruited for? What state - if you don't mind me asking? I left last fall and even though it was a huge surprise when it happened, now I know why. I was a CSL and I will NEVER be a used car salesman (my RSL's exact words of what he wanted in a CSL). But there's so much more - just like everybody else here. It's just so incredibly sad, especially for the residents.
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It is great people are reading this website and not deciding to work for FIG. I know with so many out of work it is a hard decision I am sure, but it is senseless to get drug into a company who has no care for their employees except to beat them to death and use and abuse them like you say as a used car salesman, not the giver of a lifestyle.
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I hear all of you who KNOW what a joke YGL has become for this company. They are beating these OLD leads to death. I have been seeing 6 calls in one month, people have asked not to be called and they still call. People have even changed their phone numbers because of the harassment. They are trashing the brand they paid so much for. I have even run into SSL's who try and run the communities. Maybe how it works since about 75 percent of management teams are those who only got 2 weeks of marketing training - they don't know any better. The whole "Holiday Touch" is just verbage and is falling away in so many communities. I really feel badly for the residents.
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I can tell you a story about a SSL that was in the Seattle area last year. What a piece of work. They were 'giving the farm away' with promos and discounts on the spot - anything to get the census numbers up. You know darn well that eventually some of the residents find out that so and so is only paying $xxxx dollars per month and here they've been a resident for years paying that much more. As everybody that posts on here knows, it's just so sad for the residents.
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So true! I remember a few residents getting wind of the deals and trying all sorts of ways to find out out low they too could go. One resident thought that if he could move to another apartment within the building, he could renegotiate his rent. Of course, who could blame them at all.
I wonder if that RSL in Seattle that you mention is also the one who will forever be known to me as the absolute WORST manager that I've ever worked with. They were an example of why it's vitally important that a manager not only know their stuff, but be willing to mentor and guide along the way. The only slight pass that I'll give them is that they were undoubtedly under the same thumb that the rest of us were under.
In all the jobs I've had, I've never experienced anything such an unhealthy culture. It's damaging, stressful and so very contrary to what needs to be done to achieve the goals that they set out. In addition, they keep hiring upper managers that are far worse than the last. Someone at the top needs to do a complete overhaul and have the courage to think beyond this weeks move-ins.
Until they realize that the quality and quantity of move-ins start with satisfied residents and employees, they are going to continue to flounder until there isn't a company to save anymore.
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Ack! Grammar issues due to not proof-reading before posting.
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Jackson: They can't be a mentor if they don't even know the ropes themselves, that is why in the old days people were promoted out of the ranks and it wasn't with 2 weeks or less of training either.
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I've been away from the industry now for 100 days. I've stopped in to see my residents every once in a while and find I really miss those welcoming smiles and apparently they missed mine.
Having left on my own accord, I felt honored when a resident sent me a letter that said when I left...class walked out the door. Never again do I have to compromise my personal or professional values. I took a significant pay cut but gained my sanity, and retained my self-respect.
If you are or were from the Seattle region, you know the ridiculous things we were asked to do. As a CSL, I was asked to have a senior sign an agreement even though her son was the POA. I told the RD I couldn't do that said I drew the line there. The RD asked me if I was refusing and I told her yes. Do you know how good that felt??? Our community was near 100% at the time and I'd always taken pride in knowing those we moved in deserved and could afford to be there...no secret pushes, no pressure sales. I believed our "Branding" was no longer the reputation or name of Holiday. Rather, it was my genuine and sincere caring of these seniors who were making life changing decisions. Once the RD came on board...that all changed and I felt I was being forced to become a used car salesman.
Since I left, that community has seen 3 new CLS's - all who came and left. Folks, that is in three months. I was there nearly 3 years.
I can miss the residents and will continue to care for and visit them. But, I am happy, fulfilled and stress free for the first time in months. For those who remain, I understand and applaud your efforts. For those who had to leave whether on your own accord or other....thank God, because to be associated with Holiday any more is not a good thing. I'm amazed by the comments I've heard during communications with the general public about Holiday Retirement. None of it positive. I will always worry about those residents who I know are barely making it with the constantly rising rents. I trust God will watch over them.
Wishing you all love, laughter and happiness.
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I'm from the Seattle area too. I know exactly who you're talking about. In fact, I think I might know who you are and what community! I believe I met you at a meeting last fall.
It was so incredibly disappointing when I quickly learned not only about the pressures, but more so, how they did business. Like I mentioned previously, I was told by my RSL that he wanted a CSL to have that used car salesman mentality. That's the day that he fired me. I told him I never have been that type of person nor will I ever be. I can't imagine talking with a family when it's such a HUGE decision and pressuring them that hard and being forced to making 'deals' just to get them to sign the rental agreement.
As you said too......I miss the people and I pray that something will work out for them. And you're right - the reputation of Holiday is anything but good. Very, very sad.
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Ask Charles to give you my email address. Would love to chat.
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If anyone wants to email me, feel free. It's rick@rickleclair.com
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I would like to get your email so we can converse.
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We have been gone now for just over three months now and like Discouraged it was the best decision I ever made. My life is less stressful and we are living life again on our terms. Not only do I go back and visit the residents, that we miss allot, but I have seen the same thing with the 3rd CSL and major issues with the Co-managers.
My heart and prayers goes out to anyone that is still trying to make it and hang on with HRC. The census has fallen by over 10% since we left. Before we left HRC was raising the rents so high that no one could continue to live there and they would do very little negotiation to reduce the rents to keep them there. Our MD at the time said to let two very long term residents move out so that we could rent their apartments for more money, those apartments are still empty. WOW what a great decision. Not to mention that they seriously misused and abused the Veterans program.
Under the current leadership this company will have a hard time turning things around. They still think that beating people up, threating their jobs, and micromanaging people to death is the way to grow the business, but they are very wrong.
Those who are still hanging in there good luck. Those looking to work with HRC DON'T.
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Couldn't agree more. I've left other jobs before, but that's never really bothered me and I know the reason is because of the living conditions for my residents. My community is about 1 hr away so I haven't made it back yet. I noticed on Careerbuilder that almost every single community is being advertised for mgmt teams. Don't know if it's for Co's or the Mgr's, but it really doesn't make a difference. As shocked as I was to be let go after just 7 weeks out of training, I now look back and count my blessings. I just wish that I could open up my own retirement community and take all of them with me.
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Do any properties have wireless for the residents?
We did not...but I found out our CSL was telling prospective residents we did.
Then if they did move in...we...the managers...got to explain that we did not.
Nice...
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JoJO: as far as I know there are no communities with wireless, that would cost extra money for FIG, they only pay for the community computers where ever located for the residents use.
It would be nice to catch a community doing something like that; I don't know if it could be included under the bait and switch laws or not, but it sure seems close to violating it if you ask me. How shameful for a person to do something like this, but then again the customer gets disgruntled, they move out, if after the 30 days then the community gets to keep most of if not all of the community fee. Perhaps someone could get a senator to go under cover and investigate this.
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My husband and I were just contacted by a recruiter on a position for a Co-Managers position for one of the Tennessee locations. We were SUPER excited at this opportunity and it seemed to be a Dream Come True.. After reading pages and pages of these blogs, we are very skeptical now. Anyone worked or have any knowledge how the TN locations are ran, or are they all about the same? We thought WOW, our luck for a position like this to come available, now we think we know why.. Advice? Thank You
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My wife and I were contacted after our phone interview about flying to Charlotte NC for a personal interview. Like you we were so excited we were already wanting to put in our notices at work. Last Wednesday we were asked if we could fly out the following Thursday. When we said yes they told us they would call us right back with flight info. We put in for vacation days to make the trip. We never heard back. We finally got ahold of Jackye Clayton in Oregon in recruiting Friday and she told us we were still being considered. Monday she called to tell us they sent us an email weeks ago telling us they weren't interested. That never happened. It was bad enough to find out the job was a joke but we lost our vacation days we planned for our kids before they start back to school. Think long and hard before you quit anything for this company
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I am kind of surprised because they have such a high turn over that they are hiring just about anybody. But on the other hand I am not surprised because this company is so disorganized that they don't not know which way is up. A blessing in disguise.
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Consider yourselves saved!!
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Dodged that bullet. Trust me, you are lucky - this is just another indication of how this company operates. They DO NOT care about the lives of their employees, nor apparently their potential employees.
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Doesn't that tell you a lot about the person who does the hiring?
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This just goes to show that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. They emailed the wrong person and then failed to make it sound like it wasn't their fault!! Typical HRC!!!
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I'm from the Seattle area, but have heard stories from this hellish company around the country. Believe me, I was ecstatic when I was offered my job last June as a CSL. Went to training for two weeks at the corporate office in Salem OR and within days of being on the job, I was so incredibly frustrated and really discouraged. I could go on and on and on. They burn through Mgr's and Co's like you've never seen before. The thing that amazes me (since I was a CSL) is that the mgmt teams are pressured just as much as the CSL's for move-ins. Let them run the operational end of things! But they throw everybody into the skillet. I wish some other company would buy them out and turn things around. It's so disgusting how they continue to raise rent, especially to those long time residents who often times don't have the money to pay more. It's just a very unprofessional organization. They preach 'The Holiday Touch' but they don't back it up with their actions. It's just all lip service. Very very sad is all I can say. If you want to email me offline, it's 'golfman2424@gmail.com'. Best of luck with whatever decision that you folks make.
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Thanks for the information, this seems to be the general feeling from everyone, I think we have RE-Considered and don't want to take a such a risk and give up our home, jobs, etc and find out this is all a SHAM..
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I know that you have to make your own decision on whether to take the job or not. My wife and I worked with HRC for over 2 years and we first found this job we were very excited as well, but with the way this company is being run it took our excitement away very quickly. They only see people as a means to an end. My wife and gave up everything to take this job and had to start over after we left, but we are better off than we were. Great companies are, what is called a, employer of choice but not Holiday. Good luck with you decision.
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Yeah, I've never done this before after I've left an employer - but I feel so convicted to let my honest feelings be known because especially if you are talking about moving, giving up your present job, etc - that's a HUGE decision. If you want to talk offline, or email me, feel free. My email is above. The whole situation is just very very sad - and my heart goes out to the residents. I'm able to move on with my life, but for them - it's where they live. Yes, they can move to a different retirement company, but that in itself is quite stressful for a senior and not done lightly. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.
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It has been several months since I wrote anything on this site, although I have followed it. We have been gone over three years, but last night we got a call from a resident at our commnity.She was so upset about what was going on and the current managers. She said they wanted to fire our get rid of anyone the residents liked including the co-managers that were driven off. Census has gone from the high 90% to 70%. She said all the residents were upset and wanted to know who to contact. She said she had left a message at home office but noone had called back and she said she had been told it woould not do any good to call the RD as he was in on it. We had to tell her that since we had been gone 3 years we no longer knew anyone. I did tell her that if they wanted to get someones attention to not pay their rent until the problems were addressed. This really make us sad. this used to be a happy building and this was a resident we never had a problem with. I wish we could help them, but do not know what to do. So Sad
Concerned
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I have been reading the blog every single day. I agree with what a lot of you are writing as I have in the past as well. The only thing that makes me wonder is why do these residents stay at any of the Holiday communities. I know moving is an big undertaking but still there are so many retirement communities out there who would love to help these people move. I have been long gone from Holiday after having been there for 8 years. I am with a far better company yet I have 25 open apartments out of the total of 168. I would love to help Holiday resident move into this community. I know of many other retirement communities who would do just about anything to help these folks get a far better life.
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Achmed, thank you for your comment, however their is a problem. This community is in a relatively small town and the only other independent residence was 76% while we were 100%. A few weeks ago we went by this residence to visit one of our former residents who had moved into the assisted living portion. It was a Saturday and no one to be found to give us a room number. We found some servers who told us she had taken a fall and had not returned.
I do not feel this is a viable option.
Sometime back the current managers left without saying anything to the residents. Three weeks later they were brought back as floaters and moved into the managers apartment. The residents were happy to see them go and sad to see them back. They have blamed everyone but themselves for the lack of census including the maintenance man who is as good as they get. I feel like I am over stepping my bounds as a previous manager with 9 years experience and 7 in this building,but I know how a building should be run and it is currently a mess. The residends liked the cos but could not take it any more and were transfered. I am going to try and let this go and hope something positive happens, but from what I read in this blog I cannot be positive.
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Achmed: It is hard in some areas to find an apartment that is like Holiday and if it is an assisted building the prices are a lot higher. So many of our residents were cash strapped as it were, with relatives helping out, but in some cases the relatives had lost a job and the income was not there anymore. Also you know we had a lot of residents who needed higher level of care than what they were getting. In 2 of our buildings we had a good careservice, the 3rd didn't. This of course added to the price and sometimes it is hard to get the family to agree to the help without forcing the issue, but in my opinion it was still cheaper than an assisted community: once they are family you do not want to see them have to go.
With what I have seen in one assisted facility in our area, the care was no better than what we provided, we would make sure if a resident who normally came to a meal was missing and go and check, there they didn't do that. We knew more about was going on with a resident than most families did, I doubt if this is true now; and we had a relationship with the families also; you can't say that is going on now; now the residents and families are just a end to the means and a number.
Achmed I am glad you are in a good position, I am sure there were many things you learned that help you from Holiday and I am sure the new place has many good things too. I hope you are able to get the other apartments filled, I don't know if it is picking up any or not. I just read Stockton, CA maybe filing bankruptcy because of money problems.
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I have been approached by a recruiter in Winnipeg MB Canada. I haven't found any comments or reviews by Canadian employees of Holiday Touch. Does anyone know if they managed differently - or am I walking into hell???
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I have no specific information about Canada but a company that operates like this has a culture that starts at home office and exists no matter where it is
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It doesn't matter what region or country that you're talking about. It's one big CF (cluster f__k). They burn and churn through so many mgmt teams and CSL's - unless you're super hard up for a paycheck and don't mind sacrificing your personal life for the company, go for it. But otherwise, stay away - FAR away. I kid you not.
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Yeah, I was afraid of that. We are in a very difficult position - financially. We were ready to take a couples position in a remote motel,in northwestern Ontario. But it pays very little, and then this very personable recruiter called. We haven't been hired yet, so it may never come about. But they are hiring all across Canada. I felt like saying to the recruiter, well if it is such a wonderful place to work, why are you always hiring. I then found this fabulous blog and the truth is hard to ignore...thanks so much for the feedback. Anyone else?
A great blog by the way!
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You put your finger right on it; "if it is such a wonderful place to work, why are they always hiring". Bingo!
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BINGO!!! Great to see you, Action!!
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It's amazing on how the word is out on this company.
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I'm glad that the word is getting out.but I think they will still be a lot of couples that think that this is a dream come true. I know I was one, back when we started at holiday retirement. We had to close our business back in 2008 and we work for holiday almost 2 years. We now live in the South and love it took a long time to get over what working for holiday Did to us. And some of friends that we had made at holiday there may be some . that are still working at holiday that we know. But they all think that it won't happen to them Or they're just waiting for it's happened to them. I don't think the people at the top have any idea or care what's going on with the managers of the co-managers they just like to get their bonuses and say to the people above them if we only get the right managers in everything will be better. The managers that replaced us. Calling the residence, customers he use to work for Sears, slept right through a e-call it was a good thing that my husband and I stayed in our apartment that night on our day off. I finally had to call them to see if they were all right. The only time I think that things will change. Is when I stopped giving bonuses to people above the RD. I wish you all luck and hope things change I'll keep reading this blog and hope that happens
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I worked for holiday for 7 years and was let go a couple of days ago without reason... I am curious has anybody tried to sue holiday for the way they treat people?
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at some point there should be a class action lawsuit over how holiday treats their employees, its everywhere, the only way you can successful is to kiss butts 24/7, and bring in move ins til you drop. I was there almost 4 and got fired on my day off. I have a family and worked close to 70 hours a week. NOTHING is good enough anymore. They want slaves to work there, not anyone with a family or kids. It doesn't matter if your spouse was in a car accident or something traumatic happened, they only care about that bottom line. You go in the red--better fire up your resume. Don't overspend a dime or youre gone.
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I was hoping to find somebody that knows or has a family member that is an attorney and would love to stick it to holiday. I think I have enough to get a good case built for wrongful termination. My Regional was discriminatory against me constantly. I filed a complaint with the state of Wa and with HR and the woman in HR basically laughed at me. I take that back she literally laughed at me at one point. Something needs to be done, I was let go with no real reason and spent over 50 hours a week dedicated to my kitchen. It ran just fine with the exception that my regionals son worked in my kitchen and was a huge part of why I was let go. Daddy couldn't handle me being in charge of his kid when I didn't feel he was as talented as his father did. I don't want to be let go so quietly. They deserve punishment for the way they treat people and I am trying so hard to find an attorney to take on this case.
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ashlie: In most states employees are hired at "at will"; which means they can let you go or you can go without any reason given with no strings attached. Now it is getting to where with the blue light specials, you are eating in the diningroom on your shift and they don't like it like the RD we had. They also like to manufacture reasons too.
One EC got her unemployment due to being harassed by the manager and co-manager, age comments were made among other statements in front of residents, she had at least 20 complaints, went to the 2nd appeal (you know the first is alwasys denied), and the judge through the book at Holiday on the 2nd.
I guess to FIG employees are a dime a dozen now.
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The reason I was let go was DEFINATELY manufactured, it was all BS and no proof of any claims they made. I filed discriminatory complaints with the state of WA a week before I was let go and with HR, (which was a joke, they pay them to stay quiet) and 3 days after talking to HR I was let go. I think I have a good case for discrimination.
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A quick question.... I am currently in the interview process and came across this blog today an was curious if anyone has any insight regarding co-managers with children?
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It does not work. There was a couple in Newberg,Oregon who had 2 children when they were hired. The children had to stay holed up in there apt.. The residents were annoyed having the children around. Although most had their own grandchildren they had come to retire. They had lots of complaints and needless to say, they did not last long. Not fair to your children. Go find a decent job, you will regret working for this company.
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Thank you for your response.... We have a three year old and was told the we could have a 2 bedroom but would need to pay the difference from a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom. They are not forth coming as to the price difference or where we would be co-managing.
I thought that we would be able to split up the hours and work a little differant than was laid out. For example, that one of us would be able to work more than the other...
Not so sure now....
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Anonymous: We are grandparents who started with XL, the sister company of Holiday in 05; Our grandsons were 2 and 4 and the residents loved them. The 4 year old helped us for serveral weeks during the summer: he helped set tables, bus: he was taught by the best server we had how to set the juice glasses on the table the right way. He will always tell you you have to work to eat. He had to have a dress shirt and tie like grandpa also.
When we rehired back to Holiday in 08 he stayed for about 3 wks. The residents loved him, by this time he was 7. He did errands, helped the maintenance man, helped grandpa build a project for the Vet event. When tired he would go to the apartment and watch TV or play on the computer.
We transferred he was about 9, once again he was a very integral part of our lives and the residents; the most pesky person in the building wanted to know when his buddy was coming back. I think it really made the residents feel like it was home with kids around and gave them something to focus on.
He knew what was expected, not saying sometimes he might have run, or chase up the stairs when they were both around; but these things were dealt with and they knew the rules and what was expected of them. He loved the residents.
But a 3 yr old is a little different; they need more attention and will expect you to give it no matter what. The only other option is a babysitter or daycare center with late hour pickup, odd time drop off.
Although hours can be manipulated some such as in the case of sickness, it would be hard to plan on changing the overall daily plan and it is according to what type work you are supposed to be doing as a co; I think anymore it is up for grabs with no clear plan. Once upon a time, before a lot of the computer programs came out, each person had their what they called ownership, it might have been one person took care of Acts rec, the other payroll, one for Acts pay, and the other scheduling, the co husband was over maintenance dept also. Planned events may happen on your day off and if big enough may require you to be there; you fill in for vacation days off.
As a co you most generally would be working approx 2 days from 7:30 to 7:30; and then close 2 nights at 7:30; and open one day at 7:30. If you have a missing server, you will get to serve and bus and reset tables, etc; the same if the cook is sick or doesn't show up. We never believed in not helping if short, hubby would serve most generally and I would bus; and I forgot the dishwasher you might get to be for several shifts. E-calls also have to be taken care of hopefully not often, but usually in the wee hours and we both would go just in case; one would go to office and call family if something serious happened.
In o5 we had 2 bed, 08 both buildings had a small 1 bedroom. Most do not have private laundry. The market price a year ago from a 1-to 2 bed was around $200-$300 difference, it could be more now.
Hope thi
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So what happens when you have an ecall at night??? We trained to BOTH respond. Are you going to leave your child alone? I have only seen people with children and it was recently. It shows how desperate FIG is to get management teams. Not a good family environment.
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They won't allow children to live there I'm sure and second, if you love your kids (which I'm sure you do) then DON'T take the job. You will not have a personal life as a co-mgr. It's beyond horrible with how they treat their employees and for that matter, their residents too......with all of the rent increases, the VAA (veteran aid and attendance) BS, the list goes on and on.
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I have never heard of Holiday allowing mgr's to split up their shifts.....one spouse working part of the day (or week) and the other working the other half. If you have a child that young, trust me, you could never do it. It'd be miserable for you both and your child. As someone else mentioned, go get a real job. They burn through mgr's and co-mgr's like you've never seen before. The pressure is relentless. Even though they might tell you that you're in charge of the operational part of the day to day of the bldg, trust me - that's only part of it. You're also in sales too. They will pound you into the ground if you don't hit your numbers. And you will work 60 to 70 hrs a week. And that sucks when you're on salary. And the commission payouts are a joke. They wanted to go public with their stock offering this month, but were not able to I heard from someone. Why? Their census numbers are too low. Now what do you think that will do to the pressure being applied to the mgr's and the CSL? It'll go thru the roof.
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As already said this is not the environment to raise children in. The pressure of taking care of the building, staff, residents, e-calls in the middle of the night, sometimes more than one, MOVE-INS this is the big one that will consume most of your time and than you want time for your child, good luck. This company is on a path of destruction. As long as the leadership says the same it will never get better because they really don't care. They have been and will continue to go through as many people as it takes to get the move-ins they need. They are not about building a strong long lasting company, they just want to go public and that is it. They have been trying to go public for over a year. This should tell you something about the lack of leadership. Jack wakeup you are ruining a once great company all for the persuit of money.
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Know the Facts: I will second the motion that all FIG is interested in is the figures and they don't care how many people they think they can fire and then hire new ones.
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'know the facts'.....I couldn't agree more with this comment. This is exactly the reality of what it's like to work there.
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We had something very similar happen at the community where I worked but no one could prove it was a member of the housekeeping/server staff. It was pretty much understood that it had to be because they knew exactly where the resident was (dining) and for how long they'd be gone. I wonder how much more of this stuff goes on than we know.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/questionable-activities/madison-meadows/madison-meadows-holiday-retire-d0d7d.htm
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Anonymous and Sad to Leave: there was the one instance of a manger couple who had I believe raised their kids, and then after they got the job, ended up pregnant. I guess they continued with the job, don't know for how long. This has been I believe within the last 3yrs.
Talk about no sleep at night and I bet there were a lot of babysitting grannies and grandpa's. I imagine they had to use a daycare though.
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I was hoping to find somebody that knows or has a family member that is an attorney and would love to stick it to holiday. I think I have enough to get a good case built for wrongful termination. My Regional was discriminatory against me constantly. I filed a complaint with the state of Wa and with HR and the woman in HR basically laughed at me. I take that back she literally laughed at me at one point. Something needs to be done, I was let go with no real reason and spent over 50 hours a week dedicated to my kitchen. It ran just fine with the exception that my regionals son worked in my kitchen and was a huge part of why I was let go. Daddy couldn't handle me being in charge of his kid when I didn't feel he was as talented as his father did. I don't want to be let go so quietly. They deserve punishment for the way they treat people and I am trying so hard to find an attorney to take on this case.
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these were the guidelines on hiring couples with children when we worked with Holiday: age 12 and under you must have a babysitter while you are on duty, this means you have to also account for the time that you are on-call at night(this could get really expensive) you pay a $500 second person fee, for utilities and food, but the child can not eat in the dining room.
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noteworthy: holiday can NOT not hire you because or if you have children, that is discriminatory. at least that is what we were told when a couple applied with a child...........
for the same reason they can not refer to housekeepers as 'she' or maintenance as 'he' all of the old guideline books had to be destroyed because of this reference to job description
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Believe me the ARE hiring couples with children now.
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Here is something that has not been discussed. This company does not want people that think for themselves they want much younger people that they can mold into what they want. Young people cannot and will not be able to take care of the residents the way older employees can.
Jack has failed to take this company public they way he was suppose to and he thinks that hiring younger people will make the difference, WOW he is so wrong and disconnected form the reality of what this company is all about. They want mind numb robots that just do as they are told and question nothing. The census has dropped so low that Jack does not even send out emails any longer bragging about the awesome growth is. So sad. Jack step aside and let people who know the business run the business.
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I just wanted to wish everyone a Happy and Healthy Independence Day!! Thanks to all of our military: Past, Present and Future!!! Please enjoy and make Holiday wonder why all the smiles!!!
This is from Nevada where it is hot and we have to remind everyone to keep hydrated!!!
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I to want to thank all Veterans: Past, Present and Future and wish everyone a Happy Healthy Independence Day. Also to many of you who has a son or daughter (as I do - 5th tour to the sandbox)serving our great nation for our freedom.
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Looking forward to getting back to the east coast or the south. The west coast gig was ok - but sorta glad to get back to the real world. Wish I had an inside clue as to what the best region to work in is. Anybody know?
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Now that Yovan is gone from the SW that may be a good region.
There's a really good support staff with Fred and Gary.
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Happy 4th Achmed and Action...AND DL, of course!!! So glad to get to come back and see the tragic tale of Holiday!!! I am doing so much better one year later!!!!
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Thanks anon
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Thank you Action and DL!! I cannot believe that I survived the last year and I was NOT an employee!! Hope everyone had a good 4th and things get better on the east coast and the fires die down!! Miss talking to everyone, but I am very busy with my new patient...well, not new, just way more hours!!! I feel blessed!! Nightmares are still hanging around though.
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So glad you are doing better. And a pleasant 4th to you and yours.
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I hope too that all the troops have a safe 4th of July and all the friends on here and DL enjoy the day and be safe.
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toknowholidayisnoholiday and Linny: I never saw the guidelines for the kids before and our grandkids weren't with us for over a month one time maybe; but they did eat in the diningroom with us; they had to wait to be served last as we were; once in awhile for breakfast we would let them sleep in and get go boxes for them. We probably got away with some murder I suppose, you know lack of knowledge of those rules; when our daughter came with the kids and stayed for a few days once again they all ate in the diningroom. The residents got a kick out of the kids. I suppose it has to do a lot with the residents and how grumpy they are, most of ours were down home folks.
If one of the grandsons were there at night and an
e-call occurred, we left them sleeping and answered the call. I know that this probably was not the best idea in case of something happening, but without a stove, we didn't have to worry too much about a fire. Since the whole building was our home, we treated it like that. We did make sure to lock the doors and the boys were not toddlers or babies.
And the ability to do things like this and have the grandkids occasionally is one of the things which made working at Holiday more fun and homelike for us and the residents, it was not an institution or a hotel
This thinking they can hire young people to work with the elderly and for them to understand all the dynamics of older folks and their relatives and keep it all going maybe like a set of juggling balls just waiting to fall down. We have been counselor, grief control, settle the squabble before a massive meltdown occurred, weigh and judge the health of a resident and the nuances of someone who is going downhill before the family even notices it, and the never ending fight in the diningroom over who sits in what chair at which table; I just wonder if young folks have the skills and knowledge to deal with this and to figure out what to do. It would be nice to be a mouse or a fly on the wall. I know it would be discriminatory, but I wonder if the residents would even really bond with them as well.
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I wish all vets past and present and safe and happy 4th of July.
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Wishing each of you a very pleasant 4th - may it bring you the "Independence" you desire.
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WE are having a great 4th this year. Daughter thought she had a pituitary tumor and had MRI done Monday. Dr said it is clear (didn't ask if they saw marbles or moss growing, LOL), so this rules that out as a problem, Yea. It is like having a new lease on life for all of us.
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That is very good news and I really hope you and your entire family have a wonderful 4th.
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I am so happy for you, my friend. Winging thoughts your way.
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the residents always loved our grandchildren when they visited - it was managers who never made us feel like they belonged. That was very hard to deal with - they only came for special events etc, Since at our table it was very hard to have 3 and 5 year old wait til last - but we did - still was not easy.Can not see how they will now allow mangagers to have children with them full time.
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Anonymous: We had 2 sets of managers, some of the worst ones who did not like kids around; I think the kids were better than they were. But someone mentioned that the kids could not eat in the diningroom; of course the dinghy RD we had didn't want us eating in the diningroom either so it goes to figure that they don't want kids taking up time.
I think we could have balanced it ok if our grandson would have been living with us; but it would be hard to have a lot of extracurricular things going on like a lot of kids have now days. One grandson goes to karate 2x weekly now. If you had relatives to help take up the slack that would help, but you know how far they send people now to fill vacancies; our last set of managers came from FL and were relocated several states away. All I can say I hope they have enough energy to go around.
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Thank you DL and Achmed, it is great to be able to share good news with friends.
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Five years total with Holiday and worked prior to FIG buying it and after. RD would not fire us and we left on our terms. They cannot make you move in 24 hours and do not sign anything we refused the offer to buy us out. Once you do leave you have several years if you want to file lawsuits depending on many different things and which state. If you state your case on facts you can draw unemployment from Holiday. Not sure if new owners will make any correct decisions on what needs to be done but FIG ruined a good compny. Made a lot of new friends and still visit the residents in the two buildings where we worked. Will continue to do so and not a thing anyone can do to stop us, really wish they would try too. Holiday had a very good concept and managers were the key to making it work, FIG never understood that part.
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what new owners?
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As a stock holder in FIG they are wanting to sell, will they be able, who knows. Doubtful with current woes it will ever go public. Residents for most part are trapped in a apartment and not much hope
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Forgot to add as a Verteran myself never liked how FIG presented the program and cotacted the VA in Washing ton, still working with them. RD said we had to support the program and I asked for a written statement and legal opinion on how Holiday felt it was legal. That was never given and RD is now gone I hear. Will be very interesting to see just how it all ends.
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Well at our old building I hear there is going to be another move out by a person who was trying to get A&A and the rates are so high she can't afford the rent anymore, guess the manager told her caregiver they didn't care if she could afford it or not.
There have been so many sweet residents lives forever upset and changed by the tactics of FIG and they still don't get it or care; they are the reason that Holiday is floundering. I don't know if they realize it or not, but their own jobs are dependent on a good working company; maybe one day we will see of them on the unemployment line.
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Ok here is an idea:
All current employees need to put some money together and then write an open letter to FIG and the CEO of Holiday Retirement. Have that letter published in every single major newspaper in the country,
Don’t you think that will open the eyes of the media on a national level?
The letter needs to state real facts and make sure an attorney agrees with the contents.
If all of the employees collectively pay for these ads, I do not think Holiday and or Fig can do anything about it but what it will do is open up the eyes of every American citizen and hopefully some politicians to start looking into this company.
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Well after a short stint at a competitor - who swore to us that they were 100% different from Holiday - we quickly discovered that they were no better and maybe worse. Building falling apart, roaches, horrible mgt apartments, roaches, mold like you would not believe. Both of the Co's and I became extremely sick during our time there. We lasted 4 months and our Co's, also ex-Holiday, lasted 2. I am now at a company that is top in the industry for affordable/ market rate senior housing- but I am not a live in (there are none) and I love it, I have been here nearly 4 months and they really are who they say they are. Perhaps the Holiday debacle is industry wide not Holiday specific, sad state of affairs for seniors who believe the rhetoric.
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Did Steve M. mislead you in any way? I had heard he was such a stand up guy.
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No not at all. However he announced his resignation the day after we arrived. I suspect our experience would have been very different if he had stayed. The RM after him did nothing, didn't even answer emails. Ex Fortress guy. The former managers opened a personal care business through the mgrs sister. Unlicensed in the state, paid no taxes, care givers slept on the job. They filled the place up with very dependant people - then funnelled all the business to the agency. They even took calls at night - not the managers. We were charged with correcting the situation. So many residents used them, they were far cheaper than anyone else, promised 24 hour care, but had 5 or 6 other people 24 hours at the same time. We stopped the night calls, and ended up getting 3 an 4 calls a night from residents who were supposed to have 24 hour care - no caregivers in site. When we talked to the families there was a major revolt, they had been promised that no matter how bad their parent got, they would be taken care of by the caregivers. $4000.00 less a month than nursing homes. There would have been a 20% loss of census, Steve was prepared for that, the new guy - no way. Just get rid of teh caregivers and keep the residents. I had people arrive in the dining room nude, defecating in the halls, one who defecated in her hands after every meal then stood in the hallway screaming - while we were supposed to be doing tours, just for starters. We did move them out by threatening to call social services. We were supposed to do elaborate marketing events - with all of this going on, pre-Katrina carpeting, and torn, stained furniture. The kitchen was beyond filthy, the chef walked out the morning we started duty - never even saw him. So I cooked two meals that day and breakfast the next morning - everything on the menu too!There wasn't even a can opener in the kitchen and it took me over 45 minutes just to clean the micro-wave so I could safely put food in it. Steve warned us that it was a troubled community (I've heard that before) but we had no idea what we were walking into. The co's, who had been with Holiday for years and years, were an amazing young couple, but within a month they were looking for something else. The co mgr apt didn't even have a kitchen in it! We fixed up a 2 br for them as best we could, but, thousands of dollars later, the kitchen was really non functioning.
They have brought back the former manager as a consultant - the whole mess, including unlicensed, un trained care givers is back in place. What a mess. I do believe that this is a one off with that company well run and taken care of - but that is where the home office is located. One RM for the whole country, 400 miles to the next bldg. 3 months - one RM visit - not good.
The ONLY good part - was where we were living - the food was amazing, the city was fantastic! I gained 10 pounds in 4 months - really glad we left or they would have had to roll me home!
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Well, it sounds like you had quite the experience and that you have since moved on to better pastures. Glad to hear that it has all worked out!
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My wife and I really love the work we did with seniors and since leaving Holiday we have been looking for other companies to work for and we would appreciate a heads-up on the name of the company that was equal or worse than Holiday.
We don't want to go through that again!
Thanks.
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My wife and I really love the work we did with seniors and since leaving Holiday we have been looking for other companies to work for and we would appreciate a heads-up on the name of the company that was equal or worse than Holiday.
We don't want to go through that again!
Thanks.
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I really hate to put their name out - do you have anyidea how we can get in touch without posting our email?
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A couple of things -- not in any particular order.
#1 -- Way to go Village Cooperative -- check it out at www.villagecooperativel.com -- watch out holiday, someone is moving in big time and right down the road from lots of your locations!
#2 -- not sure about the kids, but plenty of our residents called in complaints and wrote letters complaining about residents' grandchildren always visiting -- "if I wanted to be around children I wouldn't have come here to live." was the usual complaint
#3 -- Holiday doesn't really care about what they say -- we had our District guy ask us in the interview if we were planning on having any children in the future -- even though I was over the age of such things, i mentioned that this was not an allowable question and he said that he knew that but was asking anyways.
#4 -- before we were let go we had been working for months with no co's and one particular night had a number of ecalls - district guy comes in the next day and says that we better look more enthused and get the energy going or he will have to replace us with a younger couple -- again, said that sounded like descrimination, he said try to prove I said it.
#5 -- Holiday is no where near what it says it it -- says it is an independent senior community, well found out that is definately not that after being with them the first week -- each of the communiites we were in had a majority of the residents who were not capable of taking care of themselves, had problems ordering a meal, no one could use the public restrooms without huge messes, lots could not even follow a movie because their memories were so poor. If this was an independent facility, we would not have to be on call 24/7 -- my rental office of where I live now is not occupied during the weekends and I manage, so why is holiday requiring 24/7? Why do we have to go knocking on every single door if there is a bad weather alert. Loved it when a tornado warning came through and a visiting manager was giving us a break when it happened. Residents complained that he didn't go knocking on their doors and visiting manager said, "Hey, this is independent living."
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Please check your link address - it does not seem to be valid. Thanks
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After reading a new Co adv. on a career site for my city, I need to vent. I knew about your blog. We read it before we took the job. Eyes wide open. We're smart, vital, 50 yrs combined sales/mgmt experience, and it looks like a perfect fit to learn a new industry. Sound familiar? Position advertised in our area. Recruiters so professional. Trainers and corp office staff are professional. Does not prepare you for the real thing. In training, I knew it would be hard work. Not afraid of hard work, so no problem. Almost quit after everyone in class assigned to the area they choose, but we were being moved 3 states from our house. Sucked it up and thought we could be transfered back. We worked every weekend and holiday. Just know this:
Your PM server and weekend server only get 2 hr shifts at min. wage. Guess how many show up and guess who serves the residents?
Housekeepers don't clean up if the mess has too much blood or feces...manger does.
Pressure to for move ins throws independent living out the window, so you will be dealing with folks that need higher care but won't be getting it. Try dealing with over 100 residents for tornado warning when they cannot be moved into the hallway.
I won't relive the lock down with Norovirus for you.
It was hard work. Impossible, no.
Here's what make 2 post 50 yr olds quit with no income...Toxic working environment. I have never worked with a group of people that had such disrespect for each other. Meetings were painful to attend. Chef, CSL, Mgrs were killing us with toxic comments. We are not afraid to get our hands dirty but we cannot watch residents getting the short end of the stick due to poor management. We are living off our savings and looking for work. I loved the residents. System is set up for most to fail. If you end up with untrained managers, you are in trouble as co's. If they cannot manage the location, it breaks out into chaos. You'd think the RD would be helpful, but he may not bother to learn your name...mine didn't. You'll only get a call if you don't reach your 100 call per day goal. We worked 1 day a week with no housekeeping staff, no maintenance staff, so only other mgmt was chef during meals.
Bottom line, we were tired of the fighting within the management team (my husband and I did our best to stay out of it). Only took 6 months for us make the choice to leave for our own well being. We hug each other and thank the good Lord almost daily that we left.
We are disappointed that learning experience in senior living, was cut short. As long as there is a mill producing Co Managers, the company just won't care...almost 50 percent don't stay. I think it's luck of the draw. We just ended up in a trouble location.
Whew, I feel better...THANKS!
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I can relate to everything you said. My wife and did the same thing. We saw this blog and read it but decided that maybe it would be different for us. We were moved to a building with new Managers that had only been with the company 6 months and not ready to handle the position at all. We were handed our training books and told that perty much we were on our own to learn the material (it was still grassroots training then). We did our best under very bad management and like you said Toxic work invironment. We ask for and got a transfer back to the area we were from and thought that would be better only to left by ourselves after we were there 2 months when the managers resigned. We worked for almost a month with no Co's. Luckily we had a great staff and it made it more bearable, but still was not easy.
Since leaving our health has improved and we feel like we got our life back. We still miss the residents and staff allot.
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I know this will sound crazy to anyone that has not had the Holiday Touch, but I feel like a new person since leaving. Funny but it was better than couples therapy. Move into 700 sq ft 1BR 1Bath after 30 yrs...lol. We both enjoyed successful careers, but never worked together. We were so impressed with each other's abilities. Best of all, I was reminded of what a stellar human being my husband is and together we can do anything. Plus I learned the valuable lesson that getting older is not for sissys and don't spin your wheels doing something that makes you sick! The experience working with the residents was priceless.
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Thanks for the heads up. The website should be www.villagecooperative.com -- you have to watch where those fingers roam sometimes!
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Thanks, DL. I've been pretty busy for quite a while now. Love my new patients and work a full week!! Holiday still has the same managers and look to be keeping them. They fired one of my sources (enrichment coordinator) and I haven't been talking to anyone lately!
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Yeah, I hear ya. It's just so incredibly sad as pretty much everybody gets into the senior retirement living industry because we like working with seniors. And then to have such a dishonest, unethical company with management that is completely lost and most of them are recycled hotel management jerks. They could care less about everything except for one thing - and that is your census numbers. My heart goes out to the poor residents it just pains me. They deserve far better than what they get from that hellhole of a company.
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It is not surprising to read of all the problems going on at Fortress, lack of training and grassroots was even supposed to be a mentored approach to learning the ropes while on the job. I am sure that most people in the past hired had some experience in areas that they could handle, such as office work, or hiring, training,etc. But it does take a few months to learn everything.
It is a shame so many people have been taken in by Fortress and so many residents that didn't qualify were moved in just to fill the building. We had one guy whose nephew moved him from a hire lever of care, who with a little help was doing ok, his sister in-law lived in the building. After about three weeks he really went down hill fast, he landed up in 2 different residents beds naked in the wee hours of the morning, or slept on the couch that was in the diningroom area. I can guarantee you that the residents and relatives had a fit about this. He ended up being admitted to a hospital where he died a couple of weeks later.
We have had 2 buildings who had caregivers which worked out well with us and the residents; they went above the call of duty a lot of times and were very professional; this is where the difference comes in when you have people in the building that you have no control over, we could complain if we saw anything we didn't like to the head of the business or whatever, of course they could complain too, it was a working relationship. I doubt if the hotel mentality even knows how to handle this.
And people wonder why they have advertisements for workers in every state. I know there have been a lot of people who read this and don't believer that it could be that bad, then end up with the short end of the stick; it is too bad that this is the way it is now.
You can also write comments and rate Holiday at www.glassdoor.com.
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Don't see any Executive Chef's writings. I just resigned my position after being with Holiday for over 9 years. What use to be Grass Roots and the Holiday Touch is gone. Now it's hire management teams and train them on telemarketing. Just teach them how to go out suck ass to get a move in and forget them after they are in. Lets not forget to check for a pulse. Then we have the CSL's. To make themselves look good, they go out and help sponsor benefits with organizations that have nothing to do with seniors. We have to cater the damn thing. Who has to prepare and put it together? The Chef on his day off because the damn labor budget has been the same for over 9 years. Just want to thank Cyndi and Rod. They are the best managers that ever came to that building. Hate to see them get ran into the ground. I will truely miss them.
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Your CSL comment is ridiculous to say the least! If the truth be known the CSL's are the ones who should be supervisors over every community. The CMT's, Chefs, and housekeepers bicker and carry on like spoiled children. If the CSL's were hired to make the community look good then so be it since the managers and chefs fail miserbly at making anything look good. And let me remind you it is your responsiblity to cater each and every event we host. If I tell the chef I need cookies I expect cookies and I expect them bagged and ready to drop. If I tell the chef I want fresh soup in mason jars I expect fresh soup for soup drops. The CSL's are the only ones who do any work in the community. Arranging meetings and presentations is hard work the least a community chef can do is cater the meetings. Too many chefs hate to make cookies, muffins, or soups for our home visits but that is your job. The chef once told me they were too busy and for me to pick up some cookies at a local bakery. I refused and stood my ground and guess what? You guessed it I walked out of there with fresh cookies for my home visits. The CSL's should be in charge of the communities since it seems we're the only ones who take this job seriously.
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As A former CSL, I may agree it is the job of the kitchen staff to prepare the cookies, soup, etc., but I disagree the CSL's should be running the community. Also, a demanding persona will get you no where quick. A rule of thumb...if you have expectations...get ready to be disappointed. Instead of demanding, set an example. Show a little courtesy. You seem to have an attitude that you are deserving of these services provided by the chef. The truth is, it is priviledge.
The problem with HRC is they have the managers doing everything but the job they were hired for...operations. Instead, they have been pushed into the marketing aspect leaving little time to learn the grass roots process and the job they thought they were hired to do.
Our chef was incredible at delegration. That's the key - finding someone who is part of the kitchen staff who loves to bake. Our community had three to four people who enjoyed this. Each week, I had 10 - 15 dozen coookies ready to go. By the way, I boxed and prepared my own cookies. The way I see it, if it's good enough for my chef to do, it was good enough for me. Personally, I enjoyed putting together my own cookie boxes because it allowed me to specialize each drop. Some folks I visited were diabetic...I could separate the sugar free cookies and mark the boxes accordingly.
Also, my chef was creative. Whan I agreed to sponsor a senior activity outside of the community, I would do so with plenty of time to notify my chef so she could plan. She made incredible mixed berry cobblers and muffins.
The point of all of this is that if everyone at each community worked as a team, appreciated each others efforts, there wouldn't be challenges with whose job is whose. IF the truth be known, there is a lot of pressure placed on all staff working for Holiday. Unpleasant as that is, working together and supporting each other equally can only result in better and happier working conditions. This is not to say there aren't some who could give a crap...we had one of those at our community before the current chef came.
First, you need to have a perspective of what one another has to do each day - the responsibilities. No one's job is any less or any more important than the other.
Perhaps our community was fortunate enough to get along and respect one another. When things got tough, we talked it out.
So, why did I leave? I left because of the ridiculous things we were asked to do from our regional. I resign because I'd leave work each night questioning my personal and professional ethic. I left because I didn't have the heart to cheat seniors on any level.
At the end of the day, all you have are your ethics and belief. Without that, you have nothing. Perhaps instead of throwing stones at one another and if your managers were at the top of their game, you'd all get along better, support one another and find a little peace in the work place. Just my opinion of course.
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Oh my God. You just made my blood boil with your demand that CSL's should run the community. What the hell do you know about running a building when you don't even live in it like the managers and co-managers, or you do not take care of resident emergencies, or clean the poop up in a resident's apartment during the middle of the night. What do you know about any kind of mechanical problems with all the different kinds of equipment that is in the building. If community managers and co-managers are not even trained properly these days to run a building what makes you think you should be in charge. All you were hired for was to SELL and most CSL fail miserably at that. Wow how arrogant can you be?
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Very good, Achmed!! I cannot imagine a CSL trying to run a building! They are to sell and sell only! They make demands at bad times, sometimes. But they are sellers and managers and co's are there for the dirty work. They could not do some of the things they do and wake up and smile!! I have my complaints, but they are different than this! I know how bad it gets there at times!! Thank you for speaking up.
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True oh so true. I want to know this once and for all. The CSL's are trained to sell correct? And that is all they have to do correct? They make 38,000.00+ 45,000.00 + 300.00 - 400.00 per move in. Then why is it the managers responsiblity to also market rather than focus on the residents? The CSL's refuse to poor coffee or answer the phone only allowing themselves to do what they want but the managers have to do their jobs and everything else from serving, cleaning, cooking, and everything in between so what gives?
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I was a former CSL (thank God - only for 7 weeks) and you're right. I was always baffled as to why the mgmt teams are expected to call those pathetic leads, do a few tours and be responsible for move-ins as well. I always thought that the CSL should do the marketing/sales and the mgmt teams run the operational side of the bldg. But you need to remember the company that we're talking about. They are so screwed up that it boggles the mind. I was asked to do unethical and borderline illegal activities as a CSL and I refused to do so and I was fired. At first it was a huge disappointment, but then quickly I realized that it was for the best. I will always be able to sleep at night and not succumb to the all mighty chase of the dollar and the greed and corruption that seems to be prevalent throughout Holiday and other some other companies as well.
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Salazar:
I disagree about what the CSL does in that on my own accord as I believe I was hired to serve others, not sell only. There has to be a balance.
I often served coffee and tea in the dining room. I felt it helped me to remain connected to the residents I moved in and to get to know the ones
who were there before I arrived.
Also, I've done my share of dishes, bussed tables and certainly answered many upon many phone calls. I've even assisted in cleaning up someone's defication off the floors and carpets...have even cleaned the main bathroom by the dining room. Perhaps I'm the exception but I've always believed in setting a good example.
At our community, the managers and I often argued (light heartedly) about who should do the tours - we all did them. I've accepted rent checks and provided receipts when the managers were tied up with other resident issues. The residents shouldn't have to suffer their needs because our staff to too busy with others. We worked as a team and this is why our building was 100%. The Regional and District managers could not put a wall up between us. I'm personally thankful for the managers I had and for the residents, who to this day, tell me that when I left, class walked out the door. As a CSL, I'm proud of that fact.
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As I stated earlier most CSL's would never think of doing any hands on help ever. You are a rarity for sure if you played as a true team player. Most CSL's would never even consider doing anything that was the CMT's responsibility. If you were hands on and helped out with the residents then I say Bravo well done and I am sure your CMT's appreciated your help and team spirit. Just let me add that this is ever hardly the case. Most CSL's refuse to help CMT's but expect you to call the list they hand you and even outline which calls you're to make. Hopefully the CSL's who are in training will be more community friendly and a team player.
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Well, I guess it must be what region you are in but if I were to help out pouring coffee, I would have been fired. I was told by my RSL that I was NEVER to do it and that the reason the last person was fired was because they did this and spent too much time socializing with the residents.
Perhaps it's not that the CSL's aren't "team players" and unwilling to help out, it's because they were told to stick to their jobs and leave the managers to theirs.
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If your reply is any indication of your people skills, then I can't imagine that you would be very effective as a community leader. I have come across very few CSL's who have the skill set to operate one of our communities effectively; but that being said I haven't met too many CMT's that possess that skill set either.
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Most CSL's are nothing more than telemarketers. From what I have seen, they have no clue what goes into running a community. Let alone the kitchen. I wasn't talking about the cookies or muffins for the cookie drops. Not even the catering for a meeting of maybe 10 to 20. I was referring about a 400 person catering for someone else's fund raiser that had nothing to do with Holiday or Senior Citizens. So the next time you want to blow a gasket, be sure you know what you are responding to. From a Chef that know the business to the CSL that has no clue.
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Seriously, there's no need to denigrate the CSLs, we are sales and marketing professionals and certainly more than "telemarketers".
There's no reason for a CSL to know how to run a community or pretend to be a chef. It's just not part of the job - those of us who were CSL's were hired to market the community and while many of us have management experience, we were never hired to manage. If anyone is being asked to or trying to operate otherwise, it's not what they were hired for. I always kept to my position and helped where I was asked. I would never have presumed to try and do a job that I wasn't hired for or encroached on someone else's turf.
It seems that this company creates a climate where each position denigrates the others. It's pretty sick and I would hope that if people didn't realize it while they were working together, they'd realize it after they were gone and not perpetuate that sick mindset here.
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I would love to see some of the top yahoos of this company on Undercover Boss
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Now THAT would be a sight!!!!!! They would never do it unless they prepared the people for it!!
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I called the lawyer listed on the blog. There may and I repeat may be something they can do for us. Especially for those of us who worked for days, weeks, months without another team, and those of us who were managing staff in name only. I will get a call back soon. IF there is something they can help with they will want names and to talk to people involved. Anyone game? If so I will post a blind email that you can respond to. No promises, no committments - but maybe an opening door. Please let me know if you might be interested if they say they can help.
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Here is my email if anyone is interested in pursuing legal action. I have not received a return call yet - but will continue to look if this one falls through. We will have to figure out someway that you know I am not a plant and I will know that you are not. I am open to suggestions. justicefromholiday@gmail.com
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Count me in on speaking with the atty.! My husband and I worked with Holiday as CO-s for a year before we left. We had 3 sets of managers (one was worth keeping, that's YOU "Glad to be Gone"). We worked without help between each set of new managers and for their vacations. Had a RD we liked when we started, but as all good help goes, he left, and we got an a$$ for a replacement. Life was horrible! Our second set of manager's wouldn't allow us to make any decisions unless it was pre-approved by them first, even if they were gone from the building for vacation (which was a lot). They were getting approvals from the RD that shouldn't have been allowed. And they had no concern for the community budget at all! Every manager & co-manager in out region laughed at this set of managers, and hated even having a conference call with them, yet the RD loved them. Talk about blowing smoke up an RD's behind! They made "yes men" look like nay-sayers. I am a realist, and I tell it like it is, if I don't think I can make it happen I don't say "yes" just to make the RD happy. That sets you up to fail. Yet "YES!!!" is what our RD wanted to hear, no matter what. Failure was to be expected, especially if you were the Co's and the blame could be placed on you.
Ramble, Ramble....... I know. Too many harsh feelings for a job I loved and would have continued doing for a long time IF the correct training had been their, good senior managers had stayed around, and upper management saw past the yes men and really wanted to keep the people who weren't in it "just to play the game".
Seemed to me that my RD just wanted "ladder climbers", not "soldiers for seniors". I miss my residents, and I know with all my hear that they were sad when we left. Which breaks my heart.
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Do you happen to be referring to Anthony and Lisa, who happen to be the worst promotion I have ever seen in my 30 years of business experience?
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Wellll.... I'm not naming names. But it seems you have a knowledge of that region.
It would seem that Anthony & Lisa have a reputation that precedes them. The question to ask is: is the reputation well earned? I already know the answer (in my humble opinion
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You mean Anthony and his mistress, or the dog and pony show?
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John- can you connect with me in Linked In? I have something important to tell you! You can also reach me at
justicefromholiday@gmail.com
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CALL ME!!!
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No names - suffice it to say: In his current iteration... Which he used incorrectly like so many other words in his "vocabulary". He actually gave the admin (which he hired even though there was not authorization for one) a list of his words so that she could understand him when he spoke.
I too have over 30 business and 20 years management experience and I never saw anyone a snowed by someone as our regional was by that man.
Iteration:
1. The act or an instance of iterating; repetition.
2. Mathematics A computational procedure in which a cycle of operations is repeated, often to approximate the desired result more closely.
3. Computer Science
a. The process of repeating a set of instructions a specified number of times or until a specific result is achieved.
b. One cycle of a set of instructions to be repeated: After ten iterations, the program exited the loop.
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Ouch - doed the regional still think that Mr. Vocabulary and friend and the other two WunderKind, one of them a poster child for over tanning, are God's gift to management. When he sent the last two to us (supposedly to help us market) we just could not believe her lack of professionalism - she actually sat at the dining table and popped her pimples. She sat on the floor of the atrium to talk with prospects, I watched her from the apt we were in our last few days playing games on the computer (I could see right into the office and had a clear view of the computer screen,until 9 or 10 at night. Then they turned in 40 hours of overtime. They never took call the whole 4 weeks we were there with them. We made all of the outgoing calls, which we never minded doing, made literally dozens of worthless outside visits, they did NOTHING but help Mr Vocabulary write the infamouse w"White Paper". Told the regional and he just ignored me. Now they are in the community where we started, I keep in close touch with the EC and she says things are back to where they were when we got there. So sad for the residents. To No Sour Grapes - these people are living proof that caring about the residents and being willing to work your assets off gets you nowhere, but kissing the nether regions of your reginal goes a long way.
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Have you seen Mr. Vocabulary and his mistress on linkedin? I can't believe they haven't made him president of HRC yet.
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Oh my word! All that for $36,000.00 per year he is a deal and a half just amazing. I am pretty sure he said he could not find a job, so took a position with Holiday. That there were so many complaints from the people he worked with that his blind boss promoted him out of the way. THANK GOD I NEVER HAD TO ACTUALLY WORK WITH HIM!
While searching for a career that would complement my diversified real estate and marketing leadership experience and performing my due diligence within the retirement of 77 Million baby boomers who are entertaining other living arrangements, I saw a clear parallel and connection of my transferable skill sets and decided to accept a position within the senior citizen industry.At present, I am currently employed as a Quality Assurance Compliance SOP Task Force for a national (314) independent retirement community. I'm directly in charge on a macro coaching and supportive level for the development of 11 communities that may need realignment in a business discipline related to the human capital, market/branding, the fiscal controls, capital improvements, tenant relations and SOP operations as part of the Regional Directors team
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Hi All,
We are trying to make a tough decisions and reading this blog is making it more difficult. If you guys do not mind I hae a few questions..
Is there 2 sets of managers that live on property?
If so, why are their people not getting days off? Do the two sets of managers not work together?
I read that the community has a sales person but then I read that it is up to one of the managers on site to make 100 calls a day and also do marketing?
I am reading conflicting remarks and am also getting conflicting answers from the company as well.
Your help is very much appreciated in making this decision. I am from property management already and know how hard this work is but I truly enjoy it!
Thanks again!!
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Here it is in a nutshell. yes there are two sets of Managers and if they work the correct schedule then they work three overlap days and get two days off each. The CSL is there to drive sales but the Mangers are held accountable as well so yes the managers will make calls and schedule tours. You will not get a straght answer from anyone at the company because they don't even know the job at all. Yhis company lacks any kind of leadership and all they care about is growing cencus and nothing else. Yes you will read allot of comments here and most are very true. Good Luck
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My brother and sister in law have had two phone interviews and are looking to join the holiday corporation. They said the interviews where very professional and the inverviewer exceptionally nice. I personally think it depends on who you are paired with as a community team. I don't know I'm only guessing since that's the way it is at most companies. My brother and sister in law are both very friendly people who love seniors. Both have worked extensively with seniors at church. They're a sweet couple who will do a great job working with seniors. I wish I could have read more positive postings. I do think it takes special people to do this type of job. Maybe things will turn around soon for the company. I hope all who have had a lousy break will soon have something spectacular happen.
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Yes, it does take special people to work with seniors. Almost everybody on here is that type of person. It's the company that makes it absolutely impossible - maybe unless you get real lucky with an RD who is decent (not sure if that's really possible though) and a community that hasn't had 3 sets of mgr changes in the last 12 months. The hours, and more than that - the constant pummeling by mgmt for driving census is just unbelievable. It's really a shame. I love working with seniors too. But as a CSL, I was told that I needed to have a 'used car salesman' mentality......'when someone walks in for a tour, you don't let them leave without a signed rental agreement'. Those were the exact words by my RD. That doesn't work in the senior retirement industry and frankly it's borderline harassment to work like that with seniors. But the company has extremely short term mentality. They were trying to go IPO with their stock this year, but the census numbers are too low. What do you think that'll do to the pressure?
There are some good retirement communities to work for, but Holiday just isn't one of them. They're extremely unethical (VAA program being one) as well. As it's been mentioned many times before on this blog - I just feel sorry for the residents.
Ask them to consider this question - if it's such a great company to work for, then why do they burn through a horrendous number of mgmt teams at virtually all of their communities?
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As a former CSL, I concur with everything you said.
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My wife and I had our phone interviews also. We were told we had been chosen to fly to N.C. for a personal interview. After putting in for vacation to make the trip, no one called us back. I finally got ahold of Jackye Clayton in Oregon on Friday saying we were still being considered and not to give up yet. Monday received a call from Jackye saying we were sent an email weeks ago saying we were turned down. Never happened. We were supposed to fly out tomorrow. She intentionally lied to us on three occasions.
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Run as fast as you can from this company...we thought the blogs were just "jaded" individuals who didn't do their jobs..WRONG! The demands are unreasonable and the stress will threaten your health. The seniors are great, for the most part, but the company has the attitude "there is someone to take your place" if you don't acquiesce to their demands...and you WILL work 80-90/hrs a week in communities with large census.
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Glad to Be Gone: Cleaning of the manager's and co's apartment is allowed, it is part of the package; but most manager's and co's do not use this service most generally like s we figured that the housekeeper was already overloaded, some management didn't like others in their apartment because they didn't like to be snooped on. The apartment was to be cleaned on the usual rotation and line of the apartments, even if it were your day off.
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Has anyone heard of Holiday having problems with the VA program? I am hearing that the VA is looking to crack down on IL communities accessing the benefit.
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All properties "should" have two sets of managers, each taking 2 alternate days off a week.
LOL!!!
Unless you have no cos. for 4 months like we did...or your RD comes in on your days off and demands you meet with him.
And we never had a sales person.
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So true. What a joke of a company. They burn through mgr's and co's like there's nothing to it. My stint there fortunately ended up being quite short - thank God!
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100 calls a day??!! OK, if only one person is calling, you'd need to have at least 500 people in YGL and then you'd be calling each person once per week. I remember how I'd talk to someone and code it to call them back in a few weeks or months, depending upon what they said and then the RD or RSL would go in and change it to a few days which would REALLY tick the lead off and ask that we not call anymore. GAH!! How many people have a thousand leads in YGL, let alone ones that want to be called that often? What a set up for failure.
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Jackson you are so right. We had to do 50 a day - we had 630 ish in YGL most of them ice cold. People litterally yelled at us - DO NOT EVER CALL AGAIN. Leads that may have come in with a six month call rotation were badgered to death and we had no time to do whet really sells a community - keep the residents happy. Let alone the constant conference calls, the opening and closing reports - all directed by people who NEVER ran a community, went to a sick of hurt resident at 4 am, listened and held them when they cried. Their Holiday Touch was a bonus in their pocket - acheived through the work of the managers and cos, chef and EC who worked for the RESIDENTS.
The regional and district sales people literally would not eat the food we fed the residents - what does that say?
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I'm having PTSD just reading that... I know that you know what I mean too :/
The only DIs that didn't get too testy were those who loved to use the events as free entertainment. How many of them had already toured and the RD would have a cow if you didn't tour them again. We'd be on those conference calls and talk about how many RSVPs were there and then get reamed because every single one didn't get a tour - even those who said that they had, we'd push anyway otherwise have to face the wrath. We pushed and pushed but it was never ever enough.
OH! and then the idea that a senior would sign an agreement immediately upon seeing an apartment after an event. Not saying it didn't or couldn't happen but it sure wasn't the norm.
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MoBettah: vethelp posted a link on 6/9 for a senate hearing on what is going on with the Va and benefits, I don't know if you can get it to pull up or not, I have been having problems with my internet all day today and couldn't get it to work. They are proposing a bill to have the same type deal that medicare and social security does where they investigate any monies moved or transferred by the recipient of the benefit because of all the activity by these Va specialists who helped in the transfer of money. Unfortunately there is nothing they can do about it now because it was not in law and they didn't state that the person could not shift money or at least that is what it boils down to now. Also I think it was on this same link or else another post by someone that any money that was discounted can not be collected and that it was illegal to state that a person was paying a higher rate that was reported and then they were actually paying the lower amount. Guess FIG bit off more than they can chew on this one in thinking that they were going to get all this money back in the long run.
Also someone posted me the link about the same date on the Seattle Newspaper article about APFM which explained a lot on the problems in contacting or placing leads from them.
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Does anyone know what happened to Dena, CSL at Bethel Park PA? She isn't there anymore. I guess being a minion for the RD didn't work out.
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WOW - Not sure how you know Deana - but she sure wasn't a "minion" to anyone. She worked with some managers who were really opposed to having a 100% building and blocked attempts to do so - more work for them I guess. The manager couples used to sit on the mangers porch and drink lemonade while on "duty". They wore flip flops and capris - The male manager frequently didn't show up until 11. The managers didn't even know how to do leases, would not make phone calls and deliberately tried to disrupt the WOW weekends, believe me I have that from the regional chef, regional maintenance, and the regional - that is why they were demoted. Not to say that they did not step up during the time their fire system was down and when the deer came through the window. Deana loved her job and was with the company for years (she left then came back again – twice, her mom was a manager and Deana really loved BP). She left to spend time with her family -it took her 5 months to get the building to 100% - she has been gone 2 months and that building is now in the mid 80's - or maybe you are talking about someone else?
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Yes i do mean Deana,The managers did know how to do leases, they did them for 6 yrs. Deana was the one who wore flip flops, she was told not to by the RD and RSL.They were demoted do to the punch list. They did step up during the fire system and the deer through the window. Them and the co's worked 8hr rotating shifts for 10 days,also got a "at-a-boy" from the reg.maintenance on a weekly conference call.And the deer, the resident was back in their apt. in 2 days. They got a can of pop corn from the RD.The 100%, was people who needed assist. living.She also lied about a incident in a marketing meeting involving the RD. She is a minion.
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And NO the manager couples did not set on the porch and drink lemonade while on duty. No phone calls & the wow weekens,the reg. maint. & reg chef ®. got their info from Deana.
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And those Mgr's. They are moving back up to Mgr's Maybe the RD seen how he was lied to? They are good people who care about their residents.
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Also it was no big secret that Deana and the female Mgr. didn't get along.So she said what she needed to. The WOW weekends were on Fri. Sat.Sun.Which the Co's worked Fri. &Sat.
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Penn State,
I wonder if you have figured out who I am? I have something VERY interesting to discuss with you off of this site - nothing to do with Deana. Could be very beneficial to all of us. If you know who I am could you connect with me on LinkedIn? I can also be reached at justicefromholiday@gmail.com
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new managers came in hellbent on "fixing" our building. the only real problem is the census because of rent prices. although they do work long hours and try their hardest, they do kind of treat everyone like crap. after 2 months, they seem to be giving up, mellowing out on their "my way or the highway" disposition, and look as if they'll be another set in the list of managers who quit.
co managers are also new. maybe a month old. i have no clue where they found these people, but they are by far the most incompetent and clueless people i have ever worked at. They have gotten enough complaints that the company sent a training manager to come and retrain them. she's not much better. I couldn't see them lasting 2 months in a real company. odds are, they'll be moved up to full on managers once the current ones quit.
I've been with holiday for 7 years and every day i come to work i get more and more depressed because i do not have the time to go to school/learn a new trade, and my experience in a retirement home limits my job opportunities (due to connotations associated with the "old folks" home)
they also have a new grief/help hot line that you can call to talk about whatever is on your mind or bugging you. i think it might help talking to someone, but i don't trust the company not to retaliate if i complain.
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I understand where you may be coming from, I know how dynamic she is to work with, and it wasn't an easy transition for all of you when she got there. I think the world of her and her abilities. I know you all did not get along. Hope the two of you are doing well after the "breakup" at BP, I know that your wife had problems with the Regional that ahd to be uncomfortable for all involved. Let's keep this a forum about Holiday.
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Yep, I cannot set back and not say anything because most of that isn't true.
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To all of you who are thinking about working for HRC,This is one example of how a community can be ruined. If you do, watch your back,document& save ever thing to protect yourself.Good managers were demoted, good managers quit all over childish reasons.Good luck.
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Also, if Mr. vocabulary & his mistress come to your building to work on the punch list,they are not there to help you, they are there for the RD to set you up to fail.
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I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree - and that is OK. EXCEPT you are 100000% correct about Mr. Vocabulary and friend, and Ms. Tanning Bed & Husband - if they hit your door - watch out!
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Could not agree more with these sentiments. In fact, the RD in that region, Mr. MB, is the worst evaluator of talent that I have ever seen. He personally promoted each of those couples and has another favorite who is just as bad that he has apparently chosen as next in line. He does not know this business, does not care about the residents, and chooses to be oblivious to what is really going on in his communities. Best of luck to that region, you are really going to need it!
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John, I could not agree more. Mike B is the poster child for bosses who like suck ups.I've been in meeting with him and calls, you can see his head swell.
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And don't try to move out dead residents before the end of the month - It'll mess up his numbers. And be ssure never to tell him he is wrong...
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We had a good staff, chef had been there a long time as had the maintenance man. Both were used to train new people who were being hired at a higher rate of pay. Hard to keep up moral when they see that happening. Little over five years with only two sets of co managers. Team work is needed but under current set up very hard to put a good team in place. FIG will not listen and they have paid the price. We still visit both of our old buildings but not many of the old residents still ther after two years. We also get cards from family members which says we did make a difference.
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I feel if you don't like something then quit and be done with it. Blogs like this keep unhappy disgruntled people preoccupied with what was rather than what is or could be. If you have left this company then shut up and move on, if you're still with them then make the best of it and move on. For some reason I get the feeling everyone on this blog expected someone to powder your behinds and wipe your noses? This company sounds no different than other companies in the business world. Dog eat dog? Grow up and quit all the belly aching and be thankful you even have a job
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Olga: Ever hear of therapy - sharing like information with like people? Apparently not. It's considered very healthy.
Second, its a great way to let people know this company is not as up front as it seems. As a longterm advocate for seniors, I would and have shared this information with many people I felt would benefit from the information contained in the many words of this blog.
Third, it helps unsuspecting potential new employees to think twice before stepping from the frying pan into the fire.
Fourth, it reminds HRC others are watching, talking and sharing
And fifth, it lets others know the job is not what HRC indicated it is or will be.
You grow up, quit judging and be thankful you don't work for HRC...or maybe you do and are just another butt kisser who got tired of reading what is written and just wanted to have your voice heard. Ooops, did you do that...just want your voice to be heard? Then you too, must be preoccupied with what is written here...especially if you read it and felt a need to reply. In that case...welcome, because now you are one of the many. With that being said...read your paragraph and oh yeah, read it as if you are one of us...because you ...now!
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Olga, we heard you before as "NoSourGrapesHere". There was no reason to attempt supporting your own stance with a second post as a different person. We respect all viewpoints posted.
Let's say I agree with you. I work for a company and I see that seniors are being taken advantage of (or anyone else) and those in control show no signs of caring and effecting changes. Now, I can do as you suggest and either quit and walk away - or - I can keep my mouth shut and work under such conditions by closing off the humane side of me. I can even attempt to convince the powers in control of the need for positive change. Good luck on this.
I also have the option of taking a stand in order to bring the problems out in the open. Most of those posting on here choose to do the latter. Common business sense proves the profitability of respecting those who pay thousands monthly for care. A company in trouble usually initiates positive change for two simple reasons - they lose in a court of law, which costs megabucks - or - the profit line disappears and wiser heads clean house and start over with a better plan. When any company has a hedge fund management the "personal pride of ownership" is not there, only the lure of big money for those in control and appeasing the shareholder profit margin.
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DL, I do have to take issue with your "latter" statement. Some of us have taken " a stand in order to bring the problems out in the open" and " attempt to convince the powers in control of the need for positive change". all this while in the trenches, 100% communities, resident satisfaction, associate satisfaction and more. I have never had to " close off the humane side of myself/me". There is hope, they are listening and change can happen. It is hard, painful and unfortunate to see all that has and is happening but I will continue, along with others, to Be The Change we all seek to see at Holiday.
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You are indeed important,and I wish we had the fortitude to stay. I so loved our residents, but we just could not put up with all the "stuff" that was going on in our region. I am doing the same thing again, without the live in part, and no meals and I love working with the residents, going the extra mile to bring a smile to their lives. I run the property alone, with a part time porter and a full time maintenance man, 80 apartments. I do everything leasing, all accounting, renewals (and we are tax credit so that is no small job, activities, tors, phones, and resident care, newletter. I actually have more time to devote to my residents than I ever had at Holiday and the expectation for 100% is the same, I am at 97, came in much lower and have rented an average of 3.5 apartment a week, I have 3 left and no one on notice. In fact two notices have been withdrawn because the residents finally feel that someone cares. And that is finally what it is all about, making the residents feel good, safe and cared for. With this company, our outstanding training, 3 conferences calls a month and regionals who TRUST us to run our businesses, it is bliss.
I sure hope that Holiday realizes how luck they are to have you and others like you - and when I say Bless Your Heart, I mean it sincerely and with no Southern inflections, you and the others who hang in there because they really do care, are the heart of Holiday.
I hope Fortress finally realizes what they are doing!
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And when they do they will need people with hearts like you to come back.
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I hope your "stand" works. I know of some who made a "stand" and got "canned"
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I agree. I am aware there are numerous wonderful employees who daily show the senior residents the elusive "Touch". They have the respect and support of all of us.
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Olga, AKA - No Sour Grapes. I really hope that you continue to be happy doing whatever it is that you do. Which may be, but probably isn't, managing a community. I suspect we are hearing from a "Special Task Force Manager", one with a finely tuned style of writing and personal expression. Sort of like a prison guard.
Anyway Olga/Grapes, I am from the South, and I want to say "Bless Your Heart". Amd I mean it in the finest Southern way! I would add "I'll Pray For You", but that is just to rude even for a nice Southern Girl....
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"Now that is funny, I don't care who you are!" Larry the Cable Guy.
You most definitely are a southern girl. Laughing out loud here.
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Why, Thank You Honey! I would like to cook Olga/Grapes biscuits! But I am trying to be polite, it's hard but, Oh Lord I am trying...
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I think I met you? when you worked at Village gate in Connecticut. I think you were. the Enrichment Coordinator there? Everyone thought very highly of you as Enrichment Coordinator. But now I see that you were shielded by all of the things that went on at holiday.I worked for Scott E. who I think was the most heartless and soulless, RD, I think his plan from the beginning was to get rid of every manager and co-manager that was under him. I think of at least one resident that passed away in Connecticut when he hired incompetent young managers that maybe that person would've had a few more years left. All of the managers and co-managers. That worked at that time were very good, caring, hard-working couples and just to let you know all of the managers and co-managers are warned not to trust the enrichment coordinator that they are the eyes and the ears for the RD so that when he wants to get rid of them. That's the person to go to get all of the untrue things about them. That happened to us at the end of February 2010 and it was all because she was not doing her job and was out to get us. I am so glad to not be at holiday. I feel sorry for all of the people who are still there. And I wonder how you sleep at night reading this blog and thinking that all of this is not true. I've been there and it should stop and only way it will stop is for. holiday to closes or somebody else buys it and I don't think this can happen too soon. If it was up to me. and . as many like me open up a retirement place and higher all of those good managers that they fired or quit. So I think the you are the one who should not come onto this blog because obviously you're not doing your job that's all I have to say
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Hey xchelmsford...did you work where your name implies...just wondering as I have "friends" that just went in as co-manager against my advice. They have only been the 2 weeks. Just wondering how it stacks up to the other communities and how long before they quit!
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Achmed and rdertaks flat: I agree that the CSL is not qualified to run a community, it takes more knowledge than selling to keep the community going and 2weeks training is in no way trained. Marketing in the past was handled by the managers and co's and was a lot easier before the rates got so high and the fees being charged.
Getting away from Grassroots and the chain of command also has had it's toll when it comes to employees. I have in the past written up a chef when he smarted off about some bananas that were on a servers cart for breakfast that were well past ripe, this was something that was not normally done by a co back then, but I never heard any repercussions from it. Now no one knows who is in charge.
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Olga: I think Discouraged has it pegged in a nutshell, the main thing here is to remember there are a lot of people coming across this website thinking about pursuing a job at Holiday who have decided not to fall victim to FIG and their lies.
I imagine too that there maybe prospective residents and family who read this also and who might make a different decision or pay closer attention to what is going on if they already live at a community.
I am sure there are perhaps some on here who may have not done a good job at management, were not perfect all the time, but on the whole there are just too many of us to not be believable with all the insanity that has gone on the last 4 yrs to a company which was once a trendsetter in the senior housing industry. Word of Mouth was once the ideal to spread the news about Holiday; and it is still going on but it is about how bad Holiday is now and now many broken hearts have been made by extreme rent increases, firing of managers and co's where in some buildings they have had 10 or more managers in a 3 yr period giving the seniors a sense of turmoil all the time. FIG is going down the tubes day by day.
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OK, I admit I am not the brightest bulb in the package - but neither am I as dense as some must consider me.
When a comment is posted and I get the time to utilize the controls as administrator of this site I remove email addresses, etc. All of you are aware of this. It is part of the manner in which I strive to protect each of you. Each comment includes the IP of the sender. When the same IP shows repeatedly regardless of a different "name" used I become suspicious.
Example: NoSourGrapes, Olga, Salazar (using two different email addresses), and Hi1959 all originate from the same IP. I will respect your privacy and not give away your location, but the odds are extreme against several different individuals posting from the exact IP unless a concerted team effort is done. Either way, I earlier mentioned recognition of such to the individual and to no avail.
If you are going to attempt to castigate those who strive to impart information of their experiences and wisdom regarding retirement companies and the seniors, and do so under false colors, then you do so at your own risk. We all realize that a lot of people still with the company are working very hard to bring "The Touch" to their buildings, but just because someone highlights serious problems does not create a carte blanche to attack their observations.
Prove me wrong and I will publicly apologize. Until then all future posts from you will be removed.
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Good for you dcharles, and thank you!! This person is so ignorant that they don't even realize that it's your blog and you can absolutely track this sort of thing. It's 2012 for pete's sakes, such things are extremely easy.
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Here, here, DL!!! You're the bomb and we love the way you keep track of things. Some come on to cause problems and I am so happy we have you!!
To Action and Achmed...I cannot tell you how well I am doing a year after I got "touched"!! Not being an employee left me different options, but I am doing so well now!! I shall be employed for the next 7 or 8 years with the same people and it is great!!!!
I can never thank this bog for the help and courage it gave me!! Thanks for being here one and all!! Oops...except HRC infiltrators!!
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I am glad you are checking it DL because people like that are only trying to create more trouble than needed. Thank for everything you do.
Keep up the good works my friend.
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Is the IP addy located in Salem,Oregon?
Lol...
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No, not from there. I will tell you they all came from Mobile, Alabama area. Giving away the city and state does not cause me undue qualms.
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I have been a long time "lurker" of this site and I just want to say I respect each and every one of you that managed to live through Holiday and still be here today to talk about it. I won't disclose what was once my position in Holiday but I was in "upper management" before I got axed by a very jealous higher up that gossiped to, to many people how I was moving up in the company to quickly. I won't say what Region I was in because I know several people from that region read this site. I was unsure of my future but once I went through my Holiday detox, and i didn't hear a blackberry ringing in my head every 5 minutes I became a great person I once was. Holiday changes you, in a very negative way. You become a Holiday robot. I could not be HAPPIER to be out of that hell hole. I geared up for a fight against Holiday once I applied for unemployment insurance. Everyone told me there was no way i would get it because Holiday does all they can to not pay someone. WellI was nervous and thought EDD would not be on my side despite my evidence. Come to find out, they WERE! EDD found them guilty of wrongfully terminating me. I am receiving my benefits and I'm taking a long needed vacation!!! After the summer is over I will start looking for a job that will appreciate me and that won't try to hold me down because I intimidate those corporate monkeys
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Good for you! "Lurkers" are always welcome.
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I am sure the person using many names is just trying to make it look like there is some good going on with FIG; good catch DL, we all have been saved some time answering them.
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2fab4u: welcome to our world. You may not have been in the trenches with the seniors and miss them like we all do, but I am sure your job was just as vital. Enjoy your summer off without the phone.
And exactly how does one move up in the company too quickly.
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I left Holiday two years ago after working as an Enrichment Coordinator for almost 3 years. Went thorough 7 sets of managers, 7 sets of co-managers, 5 executive chefs, 5 maintenance men, countless others. When I occasionally read this blog, I thank my lucky stars I'm not there anymore. By the way...are the EC's still restricted to 32 hours a week?
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This multi-personality person coming on here is the same ilk (and maybe the same person) who has gone on glassdoor.com and put more positive reviews there. I'm sure that the company is distressed that there's such a dissatisfaction reflected there...apparently not distressed enough to actually change their practices. They just prefer to keep doing things the same way - the definition of insanity.
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James: you need to go to glassdoor.com and post what you have on here about your experiences with HRC, it goes along with what everyone else is experiencing and writing about.
Hate to say I am glad you didn't make it and give up family and friends for a job which would end up getting rid of you in a very short time. I hope the job you have is a lot better in the long run.
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DL: I just wonder if the make believe people could be actually a husband and wife using different names. I know of 2 who live a little below that area that could be the culprits even though the way they write is really downplayed and has a lot of misspelled words.
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Wow, this is an eyeopener! I did a search on Holiday sites because we're looking for a place for our mother and the only places (nowheresville Texas) are Holiday run. They sounded too good to be true, so I looked for complaints, and got a link here (among others).
We haven't looked at the actual site yet - mom is in another state from where family lives, but have spoken to managers.
The price for a single bedroom unit is between 3200 and 4100 a month - and no contract, month to month sounds like that could go up at any time.
But it also sounds like there are at least some caring staff on board in some places. Any ideas for what to ask during a visit, interview, who to talk to besides the manager?
Are we doomed? (I have looked in yellow pages, there really is nothing else in the area. I'm afraid to say where since it seems like management reads this blog too).
Thanks for having this blog, though. Positive and negative info (I'm trying to read through from the beginning) is helpful in making difficult decisions.
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In Texas try Sunshine. Our property in New Orleans was not company standard. As a matter of fact the top people from the company are there now taking care of the myriad problems. They are not perfect, but they are far better than Holiday and the Texas properties are well run.
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Go in at meal time talk to current residents. Ask for a trial stay for your mother saying she coming to visit. Ask for copy of agreement she will need to sign, be leery of anything connected to VA if your father was in military. Talk to staff and watch and listen during the meal time. Check with local adult protection services also. Go to events if possible and get everything in writing. There should be no rent increases for one year and a thirty day notice if you desire to move her out. There are some good managers left but they are under a lot of pressure, good luck CSL advice is good also.
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Lots of good advice, for which, thank you.
What sort of warning is "be leery of anything connected to the VA"? Can you be a little more specific about what concerns you? Thanks.
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The VA stuff is the 'Veteran Aid and Attendance' program of which Holiday has been abusing for who knows how many years. You can Google it. Basically it's a program, where if the senior qualifies (income and assets are capped, along with a few other requirements too) and the senior is a veteran who served at least one day in a time of war, or who is a surviving spouse of a veteran, they might be eligible for benefits under this program. Holiday has been pressuring veterans to hide some of their assets in family trusts (of which the senior typically will not have access to anymore when they do that), and then Holiday will reduce their rent until they get their dollar benefits from the VA - of which can take up to 6 to 9 months sometimes. But the horror stories that I've personally heard of is when the VA ends up denying the benefits and then Holiday tries to stick the veteran all of that back rent that they agreed to reduce for 6 months or whatever, thinking that they would get reimbursed by the VA. Anyway, don't know if that made any sense or not. But there have been more than a few instances that go sideways for the veterans and/or the surviving spouse when the senior gets a big fat bill from Holiday if they ended up being denied the benefits by the VA. All of that equals a huge amount of stress for the senior if they end up in that situation. But the part of Holiday telling the senior that you've got to move your money around so that you qualify for the VAA (Veteran Aid and Attendance).....it's just real smelly and frankly dishonest. I didn't play that game and with one potential new resident, they ended up at a different company and my RD (regional director) went un-glued on me. And I was simply doing the ethical honest thing, part of which got me fired!
Anyway, hopefully some of this will make some sense. But you can find out more by Googling it.
I understand about not wanting to have your Mom live 120 miles away. Yes, you certainly want your Mom to be happy. Just do your due diligence before hand, which I'm sure you will. I just wish you had other convenient options of facilities, or communities as they're called in the senior retirement industry.
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Thanks, RichardS, that's good information; it's helpful to know what problems you have seen. I am not sure that "moving the money around" is always that unscrupulous -- Annie was telling me about putting the money my mother does have into an annuity, which would be a way of making the money make a little money, stretching it out so it will last longer, and would also likely help qualify her for aid from the VA. As the wife of a war-time rescue pilot who moved overseas with her husband, I do not think there is anything bad about doing what we can to get VA benefits for her.
But it is quite true that one could run afoul of trying to do this without being aware of the risks and the issues. So thank you again for describing what you've seen.
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Hi Annie....Yes, I'm absolutely all for veterans and their surviving spouses getting whatever benefits that they can from the VA - absolutely. It's just that on SOME occasions Holiday would pressure people to move money into accounts that would restrict the senior (veteran) being able to access their own money. The VAA is a great program for our veterans and surviving spouses if used and presented properly to the families.
I do wish you the best of luck with your Mom. It's a huge decision for any family. I wish things could have worked out differently for myself personally, but I had no idea of what the company's ethics, or lack thereof, and how they treat people, were when I took the job. I absolutely love working with seniors. They're great people with so many stories to tell.
I wish your Mom many years of good health and happy times.
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Annie,
If you are anywhere close to Houston, please go see:Tarrytowne Estates
1815 Enclave Parkway, Houston, TX 77077 Ph:281-617-1153
It is a Sunshine owned community and they have very stable staff and very good management.
Please trust me on my written word.
I personally know the managers there for a very long time.
What state is your mom currently at?
As what has been advised to you before, Do Not Place Your Mom At Any Of The Holiday Buildings. You will be very very sorry if you do.
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Annie - there are good communities. I admit that I know nothing about TX communities. Most of the issues are with the manager couples and the staff. If you pay market rate or close to it ask for a 3 year rent freeze.
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I'm a former CSL (community sales leader) and all I can say is that there is no way in HELL would I ever put my Mom or Dad in a Holiday facility. No chance. I hear what you're saying in terms of there being no other options for you. First question I will ask is (if they'll tell you) is what is their census (occupancy percent)? That is pretty pricey for a one bedroom unit. How many of those do they have available? What promos are they running? They're also going to ask you for a 'community fee' too in addition to the first month's rent. And just so you know, their rental agreement should spell out that her monthly rent will not increase for 12 months, but being month to month rent - she could leave at any time with a 20 to 30 day notice - you'd have to check the paperwork on those dates.
Also, ask them about their mgmt teams. How many have they had over the last 12 months? And why have people left? And the Executive Chef as well.
I'd also ask them what their rental increases have been (in terms of percent) for the last few years. They've been trying to go public with their stock, but have been unable to do so because of the census numbers being too low.
If you want to send me an email, shoot me one at 'golfman2424@gmail.com'. I'll answer any question you may have. I wish you the best in your search for a new home for your Mom. I just wish that you had more choices. How far away is the nearest competitor?
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Thanks for the above insights and good questions to ask. The nearest independent living facilities I could find not in the Holidays system are about 120 miles away over local roads (no interstates). The nearest Sunshine is over 300 miles from us.
The manager I talked to on the phone was very helpful and reasonably up front. For example he was clear that the "30-day move out notice" pretty much means another month's rent to pay -- finish this month, pay next month and that is the 30 days. And that the community fee is not refundable. He seems to have his heart in his work, which is admirable, but says nothing of the other managers, or how long he will stay. He also offered to have my mother stay a week gratis if she had not made a decision by the time she moves.
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I'd be curious as to how long the mgr that you talked to has been there? I ask because they burn through mgmt teams like you've never seen before. I'm sure the pressure to build up their census numbers has increased if anything.
I have never gone on a previous employer 'forum' like this before, but the reason that I have this time is because seniors live their and it breaks my heart the way that some of them are treated. I absolutely love seniors but because I didn't have a 'used car salesman mentality' (my regional director's exact words) I was let go after just 7 weeks on the job. I had 5 'move-ins' (new residents) during that time which isn't bad considering what little I had to work with for potential leads. Anyway, maybe you'll get lucky and get a Holiday community that is relatively stable, but I honestly don't know if those exist or not. I sort of doubt it.
I guess you'd have to ask yourself, if you were to pick the facility that is 120 miles away (which I know is not very convenient to say the least) would it be worth it though for your Mom? Since it's local roads, how long would it take you to travel there to visit her?
There were some other good ideas suggested earlier though - going to a few meals, going to an event or two, staying in their 'guest room' complimentary on the house for a few days or maybe a week. Talk to as many residents as you can. They will give you the straight scoop.
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Thanks, yes, I plan to ask him how long he's worked for the company, how long in the facility, and about the other managers as well. And visit, and observe, and talk to residents. 120 miles away is 5 hours round trip minimum. She's not going to get to see her grandkids if she's 120 miles away because they have busy lives, and that is part of the point of moving her out where we are.
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Annie,
You said your mother currently lives in another State. Can you please tell me what State your mom currently is living in?
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she's in Florida. sister lives in Texas. Mom spent 10 years with me in Ohio, my sister is taking her to Texas with her now. We don't want to leave her in Florida - we don't have finances to visit and she'll have no family if we do.
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and btw, you guys are great! thanks for all the advice. It would be wonderful if my sister finds a place that has people with the ethics, care and concerns I see expressed in here.
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I had thought that Holiday had four facilities in the area -- two clearly Independent Living and two that provided more (and more expensive) options but apparently Emeritus is a different company? We have two Emeritus out here too.
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But the Emeritus are even more expensive.
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Annie and Annie's sister: your mom also will have to have at least one aid to daily living (ADL) provided by an outside careservice for something like medication management, bathing and dressing, etc. This is something that would be on top of the rent Holiday charges. In a lot of cases medication management is not a bad idea with seniors. Some of the buildings have a group who rents an apartment and works out of the building or it could be someone who comes in daily from the outside; a statement of the services provided and a written bill will be needed for this to be filed as part of the VA claim. This is where the difference of an Emeritus property comes in, the pricing is built in with the service provided in most cases. The VA aid & attend should also be available at these properties also.
One thing you need to keep in mind is if your mom has no memory problems and is truly more independent than not; Independent living does not have a way to contain someone who wanders or who does not have the ability to keep up with the time; this is where some residents may need an escort to meals which is a cost too and counts as an ADL.
Being somewhat closer to you will be a lot better than being in FL by herself. Moving takes a toll on a person though and she will have to have time to adjust to the move; disorientation occurs sometimes for a period of time.
I do hope you will be able to have her stay at a property for a few days to try it out. The Holiday Touch used to be the selling point of the community. Sometimes we use to know more about what went on with the resident than the family did, and with a lot of family being even a few hours down the road this was a selling point. Now I am afraid with all the management turnover, this is not the case anymore.
There are several Holiday properties in TX, but it is according to where you live as to which one would be closer. The newest acquisition was at McKinney, TX, I never met the managers there, but someone I know worked with them before, not saying that is perfect guarantee though. The website for Holiday is www.holidaytouch.com
I have been in the Sunshine property in LA when it wasn't Sunshine, it is a really pretty building, but no clue on any other property they have. But isn't Sunshine run by some of the old Holiday higher ups?? Achmed.
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Sunshine has three buildings in the San Diego area according to their website Sunshine retirement living; but none of the LA area.
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Thanks for all the detailed info; I really appreciate you taking the time to share it. She will need someone to ensure she doesn't forget meds, so I will add that into my spreadsheet on expenses.
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Annie: Resort Lifestyle Communities have buildings in Round Rock and Cedar Park (Austin). Check them out (http://www.rlcommunities.com). Have you considered having a person or persons (couple) to be a companion for your mother? The wages for such, and the 24/7 care/companionship factors, can be affordable when compared to a community. And her age is?
There is another, very important, question you should ask. Is a background check done on ALL employees, from the managers down to the kitchen staff? Your mom's safety is at serious risk. Sexual predators DO live (and work) in a community. And just because someone is old does not mean the impulse is abated. You would be amazed at how many employees have convictions for robbery and/or drugs. The "proper" application only asks if someone has ever been convicted of a felony, not whether they have charges pending. Someone who assaults, robs, or steals from another may have a long trail of misdemeanors which never reach the felony level. In today's internet world there is no reason for anyone to be employed serving our seniors without a complete background check.
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We are not on the eastern side of Texas. We are in The Middle of Nowhere Texas, so all the wonderful resources of the Hill Country are not available to us. I haven't seen any companionship offers in town, and she'd have to buy a house* to have somewhere to live to have the companion, but I'll certainly have a look at what's available. She is 85.
* The best thing about our town is that it is in a boom economy but this means that there are no rentals left at any price.
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I completely endorse the RLC communities in Cedar Park and Round Rock.
They are very nice.
The competing Holidays in that area, Parkwood in RR and Highland Estates in CP, are nowhere near as nice.
I have personal knowledge on all these properties if you chose to look into this area.
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The local County VA officer can give you honest information on programs. If some one does get aid and it is found out later they cheated the money has to be repaid, Holiday is not the one they (VA)that has to pay it back, one who received it does. It is also against the law to charge a veterans for helping with the program. MY RD said "we have denied ability". Not in my book when they provided the place for presentation an make a profit off the program. This point is still being debated. The VA is aware of what is going on and who is making false claims but lacks manpower to enforce programe,
That is why I say be leery of what they tell you and asked for written proof. If you sign many lose control of funds for years or sell a house that they may need later. Lot of innformation on VA web site check it out and compare. Good luck and there is good people working for Hoiday but many are getting burn out. Managers have very little to say about anything and can be gone overnight.
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Annie: Linny is correct about asking for a 3yr rent freeze, I reckon they are still doing that if the census is bad esp, who knows the outcome in 3yrs with your mom and it would have to be dealt with then is the only thing; in a lot of cases the resident is having to leave because of higher level of care needed.
Holiday was not originally worked the way it is now, it has just been since the sellout in 2006 that the momentum of changes has occurred. Word of mouth was the basic sell feature that Holiday was based on, if you have happy and satisfied residents, you have great advertisements. The rent increases in those days were only around $25-30 a month compared to the astronomical amounts they charge now which in case with a resident was around $135 a high amount with people on set incomes which do not have raises like that. Properties had their problems with employees even then, but in most cases it was manageable compared to now with managers being replaced every whip stitch, and there was not the high turnover of management either.
As far as background checks, they were doing the checks on everyone including the part-time servers, but that may have changed.
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I was a manager at a NE facility in 2003(6 mo. co, promoted to mgr. but resigned after a year due to deplorable micromanagement policies and working conditions). Sounds like I got out in time and things have gone even further downhill.
Now, I know a resident in TX who prides herself in being the longest-lasting resident in her community (14 years). Her rent has increased about $100/mo every year, but was just informed her rent will increase over $150/mo this time. However, rather than valuing her longevity, I fear she is being hit with higher and higher rent to push her out so they can rent her apt. at new market rates. Now, reading this blog, I'm more concerned than ever.
I wonder whether her family should try to get a 3 year rent freeze or, given the poor food service and questionable housekeeping practices, just find her another place to live?
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They have discounts for no housekeeping and meal skip.....They try NOT to let residents know. If they keep yelling, they get the discount!!!!
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Her family needs to get her the hell out of that cesspool. My God, I would NEVER allow a relative to live in that cluster F___ of a place. And on your way out of that company, tell FIG that I hope they all burn in hell.
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What community is this the lady has lived at for 14 years?
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I also see that Bob Donavon ex Pres. or VP is on longer with HRC. Spending more time with family?
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Annie's sister: the meds help would help as far as VA Aid & Attend if she would be eligible. And don't forget she can apply for it at any other assisted home also.
Texas is a big state and it does seem that even Holiday properties follow along the main highways.
It is great that someone is having a boon in economy, just hope it will continue for everyone.
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This a very interesting story.
Wonder which large company they are talking about. Any guesses?
http://www.veteranaid.org/blog.php
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They are talking about FIG as well as some others. I had contacted VA before leaving Holiday and continue to work on seeing seniors do not become victims of the scam. Aid and Attendance is a good program being exploited. As I said in prior post go to VA they will explain the program with no cost to you. The shills that offer help via seminars approved by Holiday only desire to make money and take control of seniors assets.
Under current law the one who receives the funds is the one that repays funds even if they were lied to by one who enticed them into doing certain acts. This needs to be changed so one who entices and really makes the money has to pay it back. Write to your elected and tell them so.
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Cbig: Way back when in about 2006 when I inquired of a VA rep at the community for a wacko they had to monitor meds on about the VA Aid & Attend she acted like it was a program for indigent people (like homeless) and they (as in the VA) did not handle those claims. This was when the program first got started maybe on the XL side and when it was in it's infancy without many benefits to it. The VA may now due to persons such as Debbie Burak work with vets, but I am sure there are a lot that still have problems.
I did not like it in anyway that financial advisers were the ones trying to help prospective residents by what I was hearing in other communities, a lot of who did not have the money even to worry about moving or hiding it. Our rep bombed out on that I am afraid. The formula to me looked like a layman could pretty much figure it out, either you had it or you didn't after all expenses are considered and money coming in. It is just too bad FIG really tried to get the move-ins the way they did and fronting things like the financial planners. I would imagine a lot of the managers didn't even have a clue as to the legality of what was going on since nothing was ever explained as to how the program worked.
I think if a place goes about it legally and the person has caregivers in place, the option is still there for a person to live at an independent facility, but only in a community that is governed by sense, not money, ie, a person is beyond being safe without a lot of careservice, a lockdown unit, or otherwise, then that person would have to move. I know in our 1st community the careservice was there 24 hrs a day, were highly regarded and relied on daily and we retained the right if needed be for the person to move if beyond the care needed or provided. This is what FIG has gotten away from in the search for warm bodies among other things. The Holiday ideal is not there anymore.
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It looks like Holiday has acquired 3 properties in the last week, 1 in NY, 1 in WI, and 1 in OR. More corporate takeovers coming soon to a neighborhood near you! They are dropping loads of money on these deals, your hard work has paid off once again for Mr. C.
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And how do you know this?
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Look it up, its not hard to find. And yes -- I know that the takeovers are coming, I was at the meeting concerning future business plans and where they talked about how it costs too much money to build from the ground up and train new people, they are putting their efforts into acquiring currently existing businesses and changing their operating models to run on holiday's operating model. The plans are considered "aggressive expansion" over the next 5 years. They are looking to expand at least 100 new properties before the end of 2017. I'm pretty sure they will fall well short of that mark though. Its all about the bottom line...never about what it took to get to that bottom line..FIG wants money not excuses.
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http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2012/08/01/holiday-retirement-has-acquired.html
http://seniorhousingnews.com/2012/07/15/holiday-retirement-acquires-two-senior-living-communities/
All I can say is god help those poor residents and staff. They won't know what hit them.
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If you set up a google alert for Holiday Retirement, you will get any Holiday news forwarded to your email. I've received several recently regarding the acquired buildings.... poor residents.
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I heard that we were to aquire some 300 more communities
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I am a current Holiday employee. Potential residents: I can personally attest from first hand witness that you and your family are NOT even on the radar in terms of care and service. You will be wined and dined, promised the best in everything. Sign the contract, write a check and you are now insignificant. Potential Employees: Run like hell. You will pay a price beyond your worst nightmare for a paycheck.
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just let go over insignificant "infractions". I agree that potential employees should RUN, RUN, RUN away. I read the blogs, but assumed it wouldnt be my experience since I have a long standing superior performance background in senior communities. It is apparently exactly what they do not want in managers at FIG.
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It sounds like what they did to McKinney, TX acquisition. It had to have a kitchen and dining area added, the rent was the sliding income based before, now it is the high amount charged as usual.
I guess if one plan doesn't work, just charge on in another direction and ruin the lives in those buildings also. And on Holiday plans, they haven't been that way in 4 - 5 years.
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Does anyone have a copy of Holiday's rental agreement that the resident's have to sign? Would like to see it before considering. Thanks.
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I have one, but they change them like their socks and every state is different. Basically, the same but different! What state are you in?? I am in Nevada!
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I would really like to see it, we are in Florida, but I am sure most of the jargon is same. DL can give you my email.We just want to get the "just" of it. Thanks.
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I was a manager at one of the largest communities in Florida. We were an aquisition about 10 years ago. I will tell you first hand that the agreement is a simple month to month agreement with a 30 day out. This region is HARD PRESSED to hit the FIG occupancy goal of 95%. As a result some apartments are renting for 30% of the budget rate.
The new managers have 2 weeks classroom training and 3 months running the community. They are on their way to Brookfield or divorce which ever comes first. My advice is to have the CSL give your Mom a weekend trial and you talk to the residents and staff during that time.
Pay close attention the body language of the residents during meals. If their heads are down and the dining room is quiet BEWARE, they are not happy. If their heads are up and it's loud they are happy.
Communities are on a tight budget so things do not get repaired very quickly. closely inspect everything in the apartment before signing. Anything amiss...get it fixed before she moves in.
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We finally got a new CSL. It has been months without one and so far this one may have been worth the wait. She and I have similar views on just about everything. She will be an asset and knows what her job description is, and it has nothing to do with mine. Amazing how some folks allow their insecurities to jeopardize their abilities to co-exist and attempt to work well together for the greater good. My thoughts on the whole CSL run community situation. Now to something I would like to mention that is aggravating me and wonder if other's are getting the same crapola. Apparently no matter how diligently you work on getting a new resident in-house, or how hard you work on getting a new resident signed, if said resident decides to cancel agreement, or decides to move out - we are now being held "personally responsible". OK. We follow the Touchpoints. We delve into their needs. We build rapport. Then boom. Things change and now the boom is lowered and "we" have failed to prevent the cancelation or the move out. How many out there are experiencing this? I am fried and chaps my hide that my RD thinks its ok to hold me personally accountable. This never ending cycle of people dying, people getting bored, people changing their minds - IS NEVER GOING TO STOP - no matter how hard you try. I wish these loonies would get it thru their heads. No matter how many different ideas they come up with to torture the manager's with ways to stop move outs and cancellations - this will change. Sigh. Thanks - had to vent. Hope it didn't offend Ms. Olgasourgrapes....
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My favorite part is when the RD gets angry because theres move outs due to death. My smart mouth response was always, well I can't offer an incentive to a body, I doubt they will take it
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Deflated to Inflated: Sounds like some more sick ideas; you can never predict what a person will do. Corporate is just dragging out straws and beating a dead horse to death. They have not grasped the concept of not pissing off the residents they already have as it is. They keep the managers tied up over stupid things, you can't even keep up with what the employees are doing and make sure they are trained right and all the other paperwork which goes along with it.
They have gone with plan A, B, C, D; I wonder how many more ideas they will dream up in their bubble world that do not apply.
Just be gracious and loving in the community and not have a heart attack; with all the managers they have let go it is no telling what excuse and how long before your turkey is cooked with these morons and they think this is the way to go and solve the problem, yea right.
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When looking for a new job I am always stuck at the portion where it says, why did you leave your last company (Holiday)? I can't really say, how much time do you have?! I can't say because they treat you like cattle. Can I say, I worked 7 days a week, hardly slept, always on the road, treated like a red headed step child...? Oh Holiday, Holiday, how you will haunt my dreams for years to come
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It will haunt your dreams. We have been gone for almost 2 years, and it still causes me nightmares. I see the face of the RD in every nightmare. If RD's don't have nightmares of the people they have hurt, they certainly are in for a rude awakening when they stand before the Lord.
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If FIG cannot manage what they have now - what in the world will they do with 300 more communities?
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It makes you wonder doesn't it?
I was told by some higher ups a few years ago that a Holiday property only has to be at 50% to make a profit, so I guess no matter how bad things are for the troops FIG is happy if they are all above 50%and 300 more at 50%+ wont hurt them I guess.
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Well they have so much pressure and micro managing going on right now that I am surprised more management teams are not leaving - just tells you how bad the economy really is - people need jobs no matter what they have to put up with. I think they could fill buildings faster if they got rid of most of the higher up marketing people and develped a good commercial with an older actor. People would respond to that - think about the one for A Place For Mom with Joan Lunden.
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They are to cheap to do nation wide TV advertising. Does anyone remember when they advertised in the Readers Digest 1 full page. Did not last very long. Cost the communities plenty out of there budget. There is a lady in Portland who got her rental increase yesterday of $200, she called me last night distraught. She has livid. She has lived at Parkrose Chateau for the last 8 years and this is her home. She also pays for outside help for her grooming and bathing. She's afraid she will outlive her finances and with increases like this she will. The managers told her that SHE needs to call the home office, they cannot do that anymore. What a crappy outfit. They treat the staff and residents the same, easy come, easy go. I pray for the day they go bankrupt. Oh, how many lives they have played with and ruined. They will get their day.
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Sad to Leave: we had a tv station back in 2005 that could have given coverage back then on whatever channel you wanted and times you wanted and covering places even clear down to New Orleans. Needless to say no one wanted to spend the money, I don't believe it was the much back then, and that was before the re recession hit and made it even harder to rent apartments.a
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I see on linkedin that Mr. vocabulary's mistress has a new title. Reg. Manager, operations & sales focus for senior housing co. AKA HRC. OMG Do they just make up these titles?
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Holiday just bought a senior complex in Scotia, NY, and is in the process of forcing out the working class elders who live there and cannot afford (and never asked for) the "luxury" accommodations which are Holiday's specialty. This formerly safe and friendly place has become a nightmare for these frail old people. Corporate greed knows no shame, only profit.
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Is it possible to ask anyone here for a copy of the employee handbook? Or anyone have an idea on how I can get one?
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I spoke with a frien who is still managing a community with his wife. He suspects that Holiday is now recording incoming calls to further critique the managers / co managers on their telephone skills. If Holiday sends you any accessorial cords for your computer, copier etc., and it has a breaker or a switch on it don't use it. Rumour is they can dial up and evesdrop on coversations in the office with the equipment.
Also lots of managers jobs listed on glass door for communities that have managers in place. More changes to come?!
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Re: Va Aid and Attendance benefits.
Rumor has it that if an applicant lives in an independent retirement community, the application is rejected by the VA. An applicant has to live in an Assisted Living community and this all due to an investigation into Holiday Retirement.
The other part of this rumor is that is a recipient currently lives in an independent living community such as all of Holiday communities are, the VA might be reviewing them and cancel the benefits and demand for repayment back to the VA. Many of the applications for the A&A benefits have been rejected over the last couple of weeks.
Anyone have any of your residents being rejected?
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Achmed: this was the way VA Aid & Attend was back in 2006 when we were at XL side, it did not pay for the rent, etc, the only thing which could be claimed was the services that were in the building. I don't know of anyone really applying for it then because it was when they had to pay to have someone to submit the forms for them era.
This is such a shame since I know many residents need it and can still live independent to a degree as long as they have some help which in my opinion sometimes is more than some of the care given at an assisted facility.
I just wonder how this is going to affect the homebound vet care that they are supposed to be able to receive at their own home.
I think even if not all of the rent should be included, they should take off for the meals and housekeeping that most of the residents can't fix or do anymore and prorate the rent or figure what the fair market value of the apartment is and then subtract that from what they actually charge.
FIG in all their wisdom ruined this also with all their schemes and baloney. They have taken caring managers who did oversee and watch their residents and fired them or keep them so tied up with other hairbrain ideas and constant marketing, a far cry from the old days when you could keep an apartment rented easier just from word of mouth and the care we spent on the family members.
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I thought this was interesting and I wanted to share. After following this blog now for about 6 months, I think it is safe to say that those of you who follow this blog on a regular basis have put your heart into this company during your time working for Holiday. I know I did. I did a search for worst companies to work for. An article came up on foxbusiness.com They rated the companies that had 300 or more employee reviews on glassdoor.com and did a rating all the worst places to work in America. #1 is Dish Network. Here is the article on Dish:
1. Dish Network
> Rating: 2.2
> Number of reviews: 346
> CEO approval rating: 32% for Joseph Clayton
> One-year stock price change: up 37%
> Employees: 34,000
Dish Network Corp. (NASDAQ: DISH) employees have the overwhelming task of managing more than 14 million subscribers. And Dish management has to be worried about its relationship with customers. It has been losing subscribers in an industry that includes streaming providers like Netflix (NASDAQ: NFLX), cable companies and telecoms, which have introduced fiber to the home. Customers at Dish are also likely to be upset because of battles between the network providers and the satellite company over carriage fees. AMC was recently off the Dish system for over a month.
Many reviewers objected to the company’s long hours and no holidays. “You work all day all night. Your day starts from 6:45am till 6pm or 10pm You work every holiday that your day falls on.” It is no surprise then that reviewers suggested employees were unhappy with management, citing “mandatory overtime” and “no flexibility” with schedule. Perhaps the dissatisfaction of employees is affecting customer satisfaction. MSN Money awarded Dish a spot in its 2012 Customer Service Hall of Shame, noting that Dish’s customers did not like that the broadcaster had dropped channels and seemed to prioritize sales over quality service.
Long hours and no holidays....that sounds familiar..no flexibility...hmmm. Also noted that they dropped channels....dropping channels is like dropping a service...kind of like a service that Holiday should provide like CARING,being able to interact with residents, and seemed to prioritize sales over quality service....well that sounds verrry familiar.
They said 300 reviews on glasssdoor or more--Holiday has 91 to date..I wonder where Holiday would rank with another 209 employee reviews....I'm pretty sure I could guess who would win that contest.
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I found this article to be pretty interesting....
The SeniorCare Investor: Holiday: Beneath The Veil--
New Owner Dealing With Large Drop In Census
When he was just 22 years old, Bill Colson asked his father to go into the construction business with him, saying “These guys here aren’t any heck of a lot smarter than we are. I think we can do what I see being done by these other guys as well or better, let’s try that.” And he wasn’t even talking about retirement housing. The rest, as they say, is history, as the two of them went on to create what eventually became the largest retirement housing company in the world, with help from plenty of other people, including investors, lenders, colleagues and those resident managers who believed in what Bill Colson was doing.
Shortly before his death in 2007, he sold the company that he loved, Holiday Retirement Corporation, for a record price in the seniors housing industry (somewhere between $6.6 billion and $6.8 billion, but we have used the lower number) and for a record multiple (to the best of our knowledge, close to 17x in-place cash flow, but that was never publicly disclosed). The market was hitting its peak in late 2006 and early 2007, and the timing could not have been better with investors flush with cash and lenders beating themselves up to get the next deal. But Holiday was a somewhat unique creature, especially given its huge size. The sale included approximately 300 retirement communities with more than 35,000 units in the U.S. and Canada (European operations were not included), plus a development pipeline that had been averaging 10 to 12 new openings per year. Despite the large size, it still felt like a family company, largely because of the always-present figure of Bill Colson, who very quietly gained a reputation as someone who would help anyone in need. And there definitely was a “Holiday” culture, and while it may have been difficult to define, it was strong. Unfortunately, with new ownership it is often impossible to maintain that type of culture, and sometimes new owners think they can do as well or better than “these other guys.” It doesn’t always work out that way.
Timing is everything, and when an affiliate of Fortress Investment Group (NYSE: FIG) purchased Holiday in early 2007, they most likely never knew what was going to hit them. Within 18 months, the capital markets froze, the housing market plunged and the economy went into its worse decline in a generation or two. FIG obtained two mortgage loans from Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS) totaling about $4.3 billion with five-year and seven-year terms, and used cash from their funds for the remainder of the purchase. Apparently, within a few months Goldman sold the loans to Fannie Mae, perhaps after an in-house meeting about the future of the mortgage market (couldn’t resist). What could go wrong?
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You had the largest retirement housing company spread across the country with occupancy above 90% and a built-in development pipeline. As it turns out, a lot.
When the sale of Holiday closed, the average occupancy rate at communities open for at least 18 months was about 92% (overall occupancy was 89% because of yet-to-be stabilized properties), and nearly 50 of the communities were at 100% occupancy—tops for the industry. The stabilized occupancy level was a little higher than the industry as a whole. A year later, we have learned, occupancy had dropped by 200 to 300 basis points, which was before the real problems in the housing market had surfaced and was a larger decline than the rest of the industry had experienced in the same time period. Eighteen months later, in early October 2009, however, census had plunged to about 80%, with fewer than 10 communities at 100% occupancy. Just six months later, according to our information, it had dropped still further, dipping well below 80% for the portfolio (but almost 200 basis points higher when the newer properties are removed). These declines are much more severe than anything the rest of the industry has suffered. According to the NIC MAP data, in the top 100 MSAs, freestanding independent living communities had an average occupancy rate of 91.0% in the first quarter of 2007, very close to the Holiday census at the time of the sale. The industry as a whole (in these 100 MSAs) declined by 615 basis points to 84.8% by the first quarter of 2010, but that is a lot higher than the Holiday occupancy levels. And from the fourth quarter of 2009 to the first quarter of 2010, the IL sector’s occupancy dropped by just 20 basis points, much less than the decline at Holiday. If we assume that most of the Holiday census numbers are included in the NIC MAP data, then the industry as a whole excluding Holiday has actually performed better than these numbers, with Holiday’s size bringing the total industry average down further than it has actually fallen. Because NIC’s data is confidential, it is impossible to determine what the industry looks like without the Holiday census results, but it has to be better.
Two months ago, after hearing about census problems from various sources, we reported that senior management at Holiday declined to confirm what current occupancy levels were, only that 2009 revenues were flat with 2008, and that there was a dramatic increase in move-ins in the first two months of 2010. If our occupancy numbers are accurate (and we believe they are), there must have been a lot of move-outs as well. But how could revenues be flat with such a dramatic decline in occupancy?
While there is no easy answer, the one that makes sense is that monthly rental rates have been increasing by amounts unheard of prior to 2007. Holiday was known as the “Wal-Mart” of the industry, or as the Chevy.
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It built quality retirement communities with few bells and whistles for the middle income elderly who used much of their Social Security income to make their monthly rent payments. We were always told that rent increases were benignly tied to Social Security increases. Holiday, through its Colson & Colson construction company, not to mention its lumber mills, prefabricated frames and trusses, and everything else to keep the construction costs down, knew how to watch costs. Food costs were most likely the lowest in the industry because of the way they bought food and were able to squeeze vendors (size matters), so rents and rent increases did not have to be as high as some competitors, and the residents were happy and well fed, and the communities were basically full.
Another unique aspect of the Holiday retirement community were the live-in managers, one couple as the “senior manager,” and another, less experienced couple in a smaller apartment unit, as the assistant manager (in training). Most executives in the industry would not dream of running their communities this way, but even though it was very difficult with high turnover, Bill Colson could not imagine doing it any other way. An emergency in the middle of the night? You get the manager on the phone who lives a few units away and not some recently hired night aide who has no idea who you are and may or may not speak much English. Despite the inherent difficulties of the two-couple live-in managers concept, it worked for Holiday, partly because of the Holiday culture. It doesn’t work for everyone, however.
Getting back to the flat revenues amid declining occupancy, there is only one way for that to happen, and that is by raising rents, on both new residents and on renewals, by amounts that had not been done before at the company. At the time of the sale three years ago, we understand that average rents were in the $1,850 to $1,950 range (some people believe they were a little lower), with the average kept slightly lower because of the Holiday practice of keeping in long-time residents who might be a few hundred dollars short of the market rent. As Bill Colson liked to say, 20% of his residents were below the poverty line (with family members often helping with the rent), 20% were very wealthy but didn’t want to pay for the bells and whistles, and the 60% core were the ones who had always been there. With the new owners and their debt structure (which was almost twice the debt that Holiday had on its books), and their return expectations, there was obvious pressure to increase cash flow. Raising rents was one way, but cutting costs was another, and both may have impacted the occupancy decline above and beyond the economic and housing crisis.No one ever accused Holiday of having a bloated home office structure—they were never accused of having a bloated anything, and proud of it—but we have heard that the headquarters staff has been reduced significantly by both
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voluntary and involuntary attrition, and apparently there is an atmosphere of not knowing if they will still have their job when they return to work in the morning. This can’t be helpful in trying to turn around a large ship in unsettled waters. Holiday had organized its community operations on a regional basis, with the community managers reporting to one of 22 regional managers who reported to four division heads. Prior to the sale to Fortress, Holiday tried to promote from within, with the better community managers sometimes becoming regional managers. They would have a much better understanding of how hard it was to be a live-in manager, the sometimes 14 to 21 days in a row with no time off, especially if the assistant manager quit or was fired. We have heard that most (if not all) of the 22 regional managers in place at the time of the acquisition are now gone, and we are not sure if they have been replaced. In addition, we understand that Fortress has been tinkering with the live-in manager model, which is actually somewhat logical since no other major company operates this way. Turnover of these resident managers has always been high (up to 40% annually prior to the sale, usually from burn out), and while turnover may be higher under the new regime, it has always been an issue. Turnover for live-out executive directors for the rest of the industry is not exactly low either. One change has been to have just one resident manager reporting to a general manager who does not live there. This may work, but we are not sure if there has been any commitment to one model or another yet. One thing is certain, they don’t want to hire any more “blue light specials” from K-Mart. In addition, the former resident managers appeared to have more autonomy under the old regime, and we hear things are much more centralized. This may be a better way to manage a large enterprise, but it is also a change, and change can be difficult. So costs have been cut and rents have been raised. We have heard that the average now may be inching closer to $2,300 to $2,400 per month, which admittedly seems high, with many new residents at much higher rates. And remember that the typical Holiday community is made up of 40% studios, 50% one-bedrooms and perhaps 10% two-bedrooms, so we are not talking about properties with a lot of spacious units. The old Holiday knew its target market well and didn’t try to be anything else; the new Holiday appears to be trying to compete at a different price point, but that changes the targeted customer, and it is a customer who has more options. Consequently, we believe that the occupancy problems in the past 18 months have been caused partly by the general economic problems, but have been compounded by declining morale, higher turnover and rents that are becoming too high for the typical “Holiday” market. So, what happens next?The good news is that despite the drop in census, we believe cash flow is still relatively strong,
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helped by the cost cuts as well as the low interest rate on the mortgage debt. We learned that last month Fannie Mae extended the term on the five-year debt to match the other tranche with a 2014 maturity, and also cross-collateralized the two portfolios. We don’t know if the interest rate increased, but it should have. This is important because it gives Fortress four years to increase the value of the portfolio, instead of two, because right now, the Holiday portfolio, at best, is worth about the total debt outstanding, which means that Fortress’ $2 billion-plus equity investment has little, if any value. Actually, it is the outside investors in the funds who made the investment, and we have heard that CalSTRS was a major investor. Fortunately, they are not trying to sell the company (that we know of). It also means that no one would be able to refinance the portfolio today given the 75% loan-to-value parameters in today’s debt markets, if not 70%. As long as there is some excess cash being thrown off, and according to our calculations we believe there is, no worries, right?When Bill Colson ran the company, we believe that the prototype for new developments was to have a 50% EBITDAM margin at the community level at stabilization (45% EBITDA at the corporate level). Depending on what your assumptions are for average rents at the time of the sale in 2007, the best case scenario was an in-place EBITDA of about $380 million to $400 million, which is where the 5.75% cap rate comes from. Fortress was probably looking at it from the perspective of the 12 to 15 new developments each year that it expected to grow by, which after year five would have produced an additional $75 million of potential stabilized EBITDA, worth an additional $1.0 billion or so with some cap rate assumptions at the time. But that didn’t pan out, because as the housing market and economy deteriorated, they decided to stop taking the option on new buildings, so growth came to a virtual halt by early 2009, or less than two years into the acquisition. At today’s occupancy levels, and assuming an average rent of $2,500 per month (which we assume is high, so it is just for illustrative purposes to give a best case), we derive an estimated EBITDA of about $350 million based on a 45% margin after a management fee.This excludes, however, a capex assumption, which should be between $500 and $750 per unit, at least. In theory, that margin should have declined with the drop in census, but with cost cuts and higher rents, they may have been able to maintain it. If not, the numbers would just be worse, and anyone can plug in their own numbers with similar results.If you think the Holiday portfolio would sell at an 8% cap rate on in-place cash flow today, the value would be about $4.37 billion, or close to the existing debt, given our assumptions. Because independent living is not in high demand in today’s acquisitionmarket, especially for an underperforming large portfolio where
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the majority of the properties were built more than 10 years ago, most people believe the cap rate would be higher, reducing the current value below the existing debt. And, if average rents are actually below the $2,500 we used in our example above (and we believe they are), the valuation woes will be even worse. In addition, we have heard that in several markets Holiday is using the same discounts and free rents to attract new residents that most everyone else is using, and we did not adjust for that.By our calculations, the Holiday portfolio would have to reach 90% occupancy with even higher rents to begin to approach the original purchase price, assuming an 8% cap rate. If the new management can stabilize operations, and staffing, and then increase the census by 50 basis points each quarter through 2014 and increase average rents by 3% each year, by the time the Fannie Mae debt matures, the debt would be about 75% of the higher value (we started at the higher $2,500 average rent per month to get there, which we admit is aggressive). Even though the Fortress funds would still be in a losing position relative to the original purchase, if they dividend out the excess cash flow it might not be so bad. However, while in theory it should be easier for a company that had been at 90%-plus occupancy to start to regain census momentum at the 50 basis points per quarter we used in our assumptions, that would be considered a tall order for anyone, especially with the housing market still years from a full recovery. And that is important because we believe that at the time of the sale three years ago, close to 75% of Holiday’s customers sold their homes before moving. With low prices, a smaller number of potential residents will sell their homes, and a smaller number will move in. There has already been strong pressure on the management at the community level to increase census, and additional pressure may result in more turnover, something that the company really can’t afford.All of the assumptions we have made have been favorable to Holiday regarding current rents and the ability to increase rents and occupancy. This was done on purpose to present sort of a best-case scenario to see what could happen. Now, what happens to interest rates between now and 2014 will be important, and there is a bit of a Catch-22. If the economy surges ahead, which will help the housing market, then interest rates will rise, making the refinancing more difficult, or at least more expensive.If the economy continues to stagnate, or it double-dips, then the housing market will take even longer to recover and the Holiday customers who postponed their move will then be moving into assisted living facilities by the time the debt matures. Interest rates are currently near historic lows, and not many people are predicting they will decline. If in 2014 Fortress can refinance the debt with a 30-year 6.5% fixed rate, Holiday would have an estimated 1.3x coverage based on
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As rates go up, the coverage goes down, and we would assume the value would decline as well, as the higher interest rates filter into cap rates.There has been some criticism that the new senior management has come from the multifamily and hospitality areas of real estate, and that they don’t understand seniors housing. We are unable to express an opinion on that, and while “thinking outside the box” may help, it doesn’t appear to have helped yet. Perhaps they haven’t had enough time to really solve the problem at hand. With the Fannie Mae extension, Fortress has bought some time, but it is hard to imagine recovering that much lost census in just four years over a portfolio of more than 300 hundred properties. However, we don’t believe this is reflective of the rest of the industry, because even with a 400 or 500 basis point drop in occupancy over three years, with rate increases and cost controls, other acquisitions from three years ago would have fared better. And remember, not many came with a sub-6% cap rate, which is a problem that can’t be overcome even in the best of circumstances. In addition, an acquisition completed at a certain cap rate can basically maintain its value over a five-year period even if cap rates increase by 200 to 250 basis points, as long as cash flow can be increased by 5% each year. So Holiday can make a comeback, as difficult as that may be. But then Fortress will have to worry about those non-competes which start expiring at the end of the year…
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In a "nutshell" what has happened is the devaluation of real estate put FIG in a bad way because the assets, i.e. property, is worth less than the purchased value or assumed appreciation over the term of the note.
In addition to that situation they also have aging buildings, most 10 years or more, that are showing signs of wear and need additional repair. I can tell you first hand that I could not "turn" an apartment for $500 to $600 and all units had independant HVAC units along with hot water tanks. My average turn was about $1000.00
Your point of residents moving in as their home sold is well taken. Most prospective residents needed the money from the sale of the house to help fund their stay. Unfortunately many passed away before the house sold or got too sick to be independant. Of course as long as they had a pulse Holiday would take them.
Enter the A & A benefit and the flood gates opened with new bodies. The average Vet could move in with his wife for less than $1000 out of pocket. My community was over 75% vets.
Now that the A & A benefit is lost and those receiving it may not continue receiving, Holiday will be hard pressed to get to 95%, let alone maintain an average of $2500 per unit.
Most seniors today are relying on their pension, social security and some savings to exist. Anyone of means will hire help in their home to assist them. By the way, the A & A benefit does cover that.
It will be interesting to see how the bean counters react to a mass exodus from both managers and residents. All I can say is Karma will get you!
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managed in Fl: IN doing a turn on an apartment, just the cost of redoing the carpet was terrible; in a lot of cases if someone had been in there for several years it had so much wear and tear that it was not salvageable and had to be redone. Then there were the cabinets that looked like they had been installed in the 70's; chipped, deteriorating away and just plain nasty; it is hard under any of these circumstances to rent an apartment unless they had more money put into them and that was a fight in itself to get approval.
It will be a terrible blow to FIG to lose their cash cow the A & A, it was a great deal though since so many would have benefited from it and would have been able to continue living in their home for as long as possible.
With the market dropping on the sale of homes, we had one lady who had her home on the market for 4yrs; she was holding out, but there are so many who can't make the change unless they sell the house.
Like you say the A & A is able to be payed for them in their home now and that will keep a lot of people from moving out of a paid house to pay a small fortune for rent; I know we had one move-in that didn't happen because of this.
The used car salesman tactics don't work either; no one wants to be forced to rent like FIG has wanted the managers to act the last 3yrs or more. Word of mouth travels.
I just cannot see how they justify buying more already built places and raising the rent sky high when they can't control what they already have; and who is loaning them the money to do so; if you ask me they are one step away from collapse now esp with the loss of A & A, watch those census numbers drop.
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Good, I hope those bastards rot in hell. They scammed so disgustingly much with the VAA program. I just hope that the senior residents somehow will be okay though. Those people I love with my whole heart. The company - the absolute worst.
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I have such hatred for that company. And the only reason is because how they treat their residents. They're the most dishonest bunch of a-holes that I've ever seen. I was only with them for a short time last year and I sure was suspect in how the VAA was being used. Well, that party is over. Bottom line (as has been pointed out) is that FIG bought Holiday at the peak of the market and now they're not getting the ROI that they've been looking for. May those people rot in hell. You don't treat anybody like they do, let along seniors.
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Richard I agree with you. I said from the beginning that there was something very wrong with how HRC was handling this program. I refused to follow the program the way they wanted because I felt it was unethical. I was right and the Vets we helped were handled correctly and are still there and receiving their money. Jack is the most unethical person I have ever seen and he has made no efort to make right the wrong he caused. Even though he does not report the company cencus any more I have hear that it is below 60% mostly because of the VA screw up. Yet some how he still has his job, Why?
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So any of you who still have $$$ in Holiday's 401k, call Fidelity immediately and make sure you are not tied into FIG's returns or stock. I know they have some kind of fuzzy logic they use to invest your money if you fail to choose options. Talk to your banker to get some guidance. Act qick, as Chicken Little said "the sky is falling".
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Yeah I hear ya. I'd love to know what their census is too. They're just so damn unethical and slimy, it's truly sickening. I would NEVER in a million years do business like that, let alone with seniors and their families. But as usual, it's all about the $$. They just don't give a crap about running a company the honorable, ethical way. It sickens me.
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Been awful quiet on this blog for a few days.. Tomorrow is Monday, and this is the last week in August, so its crunch time for all the managers and CSL's to close those last minute deals on move ins and save themselves from being harassed on those Monday conference calls from the RD's and RSL's. Chef's you should all have 2 trucks left from sysco -- before the months end..dont buy anything you dont need (except lots of margarine, flour, sugar, brown sugar, and chocolate chips, for the barrage of cookies you will be asked for), and make sure it all fits in with the budget or you will have explaining to do come the first week in September. I feel really bad for the Chefs who will be asked for 20 dozen cookies while they are setting up a display cooking (like the manager/csl can't see you are doing something else at the time) ...don't forget to do those resident on-boarding while the display cooking is going on.... If you didn't get to it the first 13 hours of the day--you can always do the on-boarding after the supper service before you have to go back and finish YOUR paperwork for the week.. Good Luck ya'll...If there's anyone tired of the same month to month baloney the last week of the month I would like to see a few of you say so...It's no way to work...more stress than is necessary in a job....I really hope no one calls out sick this week....
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Thank GOD that I don't work for that hell hole of a company. Oh my word....what nightmares. I'm hoping that they'll go down in flames asap and someone else will pick them up for pennies on the dollar and start treating the employees and residents right. But I won't hold my breath on that. Jack Callison is a Dick and he's an absolute joke of a CEO.
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Thank you DLCharles for making this website available. It surely saved us some grief. Some months ago we put great effort into writing dual resumes and cover letters and submitting applications for co-manager positions with Holiday. When we submitted the completed applications, we received an automated response thanking us for our application and stating that if we did not hear back from them within 2 weeks we were not likely to hear back from them at all. So we were surprised when about a month later we received an email requesting us to call back to set up a joint telephone interview. In the meantime we had already become somewhat disillusioned with the company by visiting two Holiday properties in the area. But when we got the email, it prompted us to do yet another internet search for information about this company. That search revealed glassdoor and your blog, and we spent several hours reading your blog and the rest is history. We obviously would want nothing to do with a company like this, and we could never have learned what we did about them without your website and blog. We came close to making what no doubt would have been a terrible mistake. Thank you again for the effort everyone has put into this and for the effort it must take to keep it online.
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It is truly a pleasure - and thanks for the mention. I did not set this up initially to accomplish anything other than to bring to light certain problems being displayed. Imagine my surprise when it literally "took off". What has evolved took me unaware. How can any company take such advantage of senior citizens without eventual repercussions?
Suggestion regarding difficulty with the dialogue box to submit a post: If the words are hard to make out keep clicking up new ones until they are easily discernible. I have conversed with the server about this and have no options due to spam control.
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Close Call......I agree completely. I did not know of this website (my fault) as I was interviewed for a CSL position in the Seattle area, I love working with seniors, and I went through their interview process in 2 or 3 days before I was offered the position. I should have known better considering how fast the interviews went. But I was so excited to be able to get a chance to work with seniors.
I quickly learned (within just a few days) how this company was run and how they wanted instant results. My community was just a disaster in terms of census numbers, morale, reputation in the community, local marketing, etc.
Bottom line is that I was there for just 7 weeks out of training before I was let go. My boss said that while he thought I could sell, he need someone who had the 'used car salesman mentality'. Those were his exact words. Well, we got into it and I told him that he and the rest of management is running scared every single day. That type of selling style will never work long term. Seniors can smell a 'dead rat' very quickly.
They treat the employees like crap and frankly the residents too with their rent increases for people that have been with them for many years. They know these people are on a fixed income. And they do these things while having many rooms sitting empty, some for several years.
They brought in some 'clown' who was a SSL (strategic sales leader) for a few months and they were giving the farm away in terms of deals to people. We were taught during training to NEVER give the first month's rent away free. He not only did that, but also just gave everything else up too - anything to get them to sign the contract! High pressure sales tactics.
They abused the VAA program as well and I'm glad that was shut down by the VA. It's a great program for our vets but only if used that way that it was suppose to be used.
Anyway, while I was shocked to be let go after just 7 weeks out of training, it was for the best. As other people have said, you felt guilty for taking a day off. No work/life balance at all. You were expected to totally dedicate your life to the company.
Just another American company that has idiotic management and has no clue as to how to treat employees and their customers - in this case residents.
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What was the reason they let you go? If I may ask you? I thought what I am going through is upsetting but to hear about the take away from the training process is beyond comprehension. Used car salesman? No wonder this company is so screwed up. BTW - the images in the security code is WHACKED - I can't read most of them!!
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Why did they let me go? Not enough move-ins. I had 5 in 7 weeks. Our database in 'YGL' was an absolute joke. As has been pointed out by other people here, they insisted on us pounding the phones calling the 'leads'. I got to a point where I was refusing to call those 'dead leads' because I will not harass people, especially seniors, so I just marked it down as a call in YGL and closed it out. What a mis-used word that is. My God, most of those 'leads' were dead.....just people that maybe had come in for an event, or to visit a friend that was a resident. Hell, a good percentage of these 'leads' had no intention of moving in, or certainly not any time soon at all. People were telling us to stop calling. Before I got to my community, they were calling dead leads once a week. That is harassment and if it were me that they were calling I would never move in even if I needed to. I'd go somewhere else.
I told the so called 'leaders' that the only way we're going to get new bodies in the front door is to do some big events, networking in the community, and making our residents happier - which means a better environment. Happy residents are almost always one of the best sources of new residents!
I could go on and on. It's just disgusting. The RD and RSL have also left in the past year. It truly is a slimy company.
When they brought that SSL (strategic sales leader) in to 'help' with move-ins (giving the farm away) I knew we were a sinking ship. He was an embarrassment to any salesperson. As I've noted before, he came in the building wearing open toe sandals, a Hawaiian type shirt unbuttoned half way down, hair looking like crap, and not even a company name badge on either.
Disappointing to say the least. I know FIG is frustrated at their ROI since they bought Holiday from Colson, but until they change their corporate mgmt and their mentality in how they treat their employees and residents...they're going to struggle.
Anyway, it's been almost a year now since I left and while it's been challenging job-wise, I have so much less stress and I'm much happier. I'm working for a major Medicare Insurance company selling Medicare products to seniors which I enjoy tremendously. I seriously doubt if I will work for another corporation in a sales role again. I'm too old to put up with crappy idiotic management. There's too much of that out there and I'm done with it.
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5 move ins in 7 weeks is a great start, but that wasn't good enough?? There is more I would love to add but cannot for obvious reasons. You are absolutely spot on regarding those leads and the constant harranging on being told to call ad-nauseum. These folks are tired of it and I find that while most are polite, they do tell me that they are hearing from others who have called just the week before. Enough already. Fig is frustrated? Aww. Poor Fig. What you have pointed out is nothing new sadly enough so as far as changes being made - no one is holding their breath. Interesting that so many leave Holiday a year or more earlier, and are still on this board replying to people like me that are still here and experiencing the CRAP. There will be no change. Not as long as the current power players stay in charge. Good luck to you in your current job. Sounds like it's working for you!
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Yeah, the RSL said he wanted someone who could do 8 to 10 move-ins/mo. I said yeah, right. Wouldn't we all like to do that?!! He said 'I need someone who will not let people leave without signing a rental agreement'. Is that high pressure sales tactics or what? You have no idea of where they're at in the 'sales cycle' of looking into retirement homes at that point. You won't until you go through the consultative fact finding process. Or as they say 'sit, tour, sit'. That one sort of cracked me up.
And the funny part about being let go so quickly was that down in training, when we did the role play (sit, tour, sit) I absolutely aced it. And the instructor even said so. After I got done with it, she said 'good grief Richard, if I would have known you were going to do that well I would have recorded it'. Now I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back, but rather to point out that I believe that I do have some good sales skills and I know how to relate to people, especially seniors and have a very natural dialogue with them that puts them at ease. The instructor even said so too. And then I get thrown into a District that was run by an absolute jackass RSL who has the boot camp mentality. Not a good match I guess.
If you want to email me offline, feel free. It's golfman2424@gmail.com - I'd be curious to hear your stories, what community you're from, etc. I wish you the best of luck since you're still there. Being the last week of the month, this is one of those times where I'm REALLY happy that I'm not there. My RSL was such a dick. Pardon my language, but that's a very accurate description of him. And his RD was every bit as much.
In the short time that I was there, I had residents coming up to me asking if they were going to have to shut the building down? How sad is that? That's very stressful for a senior to be thinking. I mean, for better or for worse, this is/was their home!! I tried to assure them that the building wasn't going to be shut down. Don't know if they believed me or not though.
I really miss some of the residents that I became close with. Heck, I occasionally had a couple of them sit in my office (they were widows) since they didn't have many friends. I told them that I'd have to continue working, but they were thrilled just to sit by somebody for a little bit. If we didn't have a few times to sit and talk with our residents then something is seriously wrong with that picture.
Well, anyway, one thing that I am proud of is that I know of several couples who were involved with going through the interview process and they found this site and read some of the reviews. They then backed out of the interviews as they knew it would be a horrible decision to work at Holiday. So I feel good about being even a small part of that process, especially for mgmt teams as that is also your home while you're there.
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RichardS: It is amazing that the communities in Seattle would be that bad; it is you would figure right in corporates' backdoor so to speak. And frankly if they can't do any better there, then how do the expect properties in other areas to do any better; why the constant hounding of management to rent and treating them like they are something on the bottom of their shoes'. And now we hear that they are planning on buying other properties to expand; I say it is just to ruin some more residents lives in the long run.
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Yes, the communities in the Seattle and surrounding area ARE as bad as all that. heck, I'm now wondering if Richard replaced me. I don't think I ever met him because when I was working as a CSL, the others in the area had been there longer than I. However, I saw several get let go or quit before I finally left.
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Yeah I hear you. It doesn't make much sense that with so many independent retirement living companies struggling so much, in small part due to the economy, that they would sort of 'hunker down' until things start to break again in the future. But my guess is that FIG, who bought Holiday I believe in 2007 (right at the peak of the market before the collapse) is thinking that there might be some 'good deals' out there in terms of potential acquisition properties - and they could be right, hard to say. But with the mgmt style that they have, it will simply never work in the long run. But they're incompetent and there's no other way to put it.
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CloseCall: thank goodness you didn't fall for the trap. It could have been a good job, but now the management is nothing but a marketing agents who are supposed to twist arms and move them in.
You won't have to worry about breaking the residents hearts and your own.
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Wow. Census drops due to deaths as I stated before and moves due to higher levels of care. That coupled with an inherited VA AR balance has put us in the hot seat. No matter we went months without a CSL. No matter we made it clear that without some intervention HELP PEOPLE in a more timely matter - do we find ourselves in a situation that I have read about time and time again with other folks on this blog. The RD will twist whatever you say and turn it against you. I don't know if we will survive or not. All I know is we have given our absolute best into this community and anyone other than the region will tell you so. For what that comment is worth. The thing of it is is even if we are left standing once the dust settles and the census is up to a level that gets the vampires off your neck - do we want to stay? Do we want to stay when we are ethical, honest and hard working only - yes I am still PO'd about the fact that the losers in our other community are still there and believe me the last thing I heard about with regard to resident safety would make the hairs stand up on the back of your collective necks. They are still in the game and we are in the company cross hairs. So I guess to answer my own question - no I really don't want to be here. We are actively looking for another position with a company who gives a damn about honest, hard working, employees WITH INTEGRITY and are fed up with the way said employees are treated. I have said earlier that I was clued into this site from a resident's daughter in my former community. I tried to get hubby interested in reading what folks have to say on this blog and he wasn't interested. If he had been I may have been able to get him interested in looking elsewhere a long time ago. I will tell you that if we are asked to leave the PAGES of documentation I have on those two nasty people in former community, will be released. For this company to let go of us and keep those who put resident's in danger will not be ignored. Hey people - if you have a census above 90% you can do what you want without abandon. That includes a climate of backstabbing, harassment, 8 key employees leaving because of the toxic environment provided by said managers. NO PROBLEM. If your census falls to a level - BTW well above 70% and your are the polar opposite of the other, too bad for you. My point - it doesn't matter what goes down if you meet your numbers. It doesn't matter how you treat resident's or employees if your numbers are acceptable. Anyone here who has gone thru this knows and now I do. Thanks for the opportunity to vent and thanks for the comments to earlier previous post. I appreciate it. Have a good Monday everyone.l
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Deflated Again: you know we in the past always watched out for the residents in our care and didn't hesitate if a careservice provider was not taking care of a resident the way they should be, the family members were notified, we also expected the same care out of our employees. Now the same concept should be with the way residents are being treated by corporate office either due to cutting back on activities, busing schedule and food quality.
But do remember to be careful about what you say or do on here and what information is given out, libel and slander could be brought to you.
And through my grapevine, there are several communities that are hurting for managers and co-managers, some of which just a year or less ago had them in place with new ones, humm... tired of all the bull, more blue light specials, census not up....? who knows, it's the FIG way.
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To Nightmare
I hear what you are saying but anything I might relay is fact and I have documentation and former employees who would be more than happy to support me IF it came to it. I hope it never does. You are right - it is the Fig way. Holiday Touch was the Colson way. Who is in charge?.....
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What helped sell apartments in the past was the closeness of you to the person, you had to form a bond with that person and their family; it was not the used car mentality of salesmanship that did, or how many events you could throw or parties for outsiders. The best times we had were the buffets before the holidays each year where family members could come and eat (most times there was a charge for family to eat); this is something a lot of communities don't even do anymore and it is such a shame. Our grandkids when they could come were like grandkids to a lot of the residents, it was what kept the family feeling in the building. I am not going to say I was the best salesperson at all times, I'm not patting my self on the back too much either,I have toured a MS senator and his brother and had a wait deposit for their mom, with some all you can do is dangle the bait and hope for the future.
YGL was a tool that has gotten out of hand, yes it is nice to have the information in one place, but the old DI sheets in a binder worked just as well, and then you can't have someone micromanaging it all the time. We had our system that worked on a rotation for home visits, events were mailed to them and follow up calls made. I used a spreadsheet and could take the zip codes and make them the 1st column and go numerical for a specific area to visit. And don't call again meant just that and that does not include harassing them a week later. Remember what happened to Dionne Warwick and her physic friends network, she was sued, employees called after being told "Don't call again" by some of the contacts.
FIG is trying to redesign the wheel and it ain't happening, they don't have a clue what makes a community work and why it worked under the old system, that has been lost now. They have tried so many model plans, with RSL's and GSL's and now an SSL, and each have failed in most areas for one reason or another. And yes there were problems in the "Grassroots" era, it was hard sometimes to keep positions filled with part-time employees, kitchen staff in disagreement, even managers, but management tried to have the chain of command in place, RD's came around every so often and you could have a talk with them about any problems, the residents talked to them also. Now what do you have, managers being fired all the time, co-managers being fired, no order in the kitchen, employees who have more seniority and acting like they are boss, RD's who think you are selling cars in a terrible economy and who keep your time tied up doing stupid time consuming things like never ending cold calls, conference calls, rah rah meetings.
When I found this website (word of mouth) it was great to hear that we weren't the only out there after FIG, and reading the same stuff just at different communities so you know it is not just you it is just the mentality now days of K-Mart specials and the hotels. And anyone who reads this goes in with "Eyes Wide Open" to the tac
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DL: You probably didn't think any of the stuff going on could go on with something like Holiday and the reputation they did have in the past. The one thing I cannot figure is we all know home office monitors this website, and yet they still do not attempt to correct or address any problems in the communities, it is like a steam engine just barreling down the tracks willy nilly. Even Pericles story is just the tip of the iceberg, never mind how they treat the management teams and others. And I too hate that so many seniors have no other recourse but to stay, some of those who left after we were fired were able to go to a community that was actually cheaper, full kitchens and some assisted services such as all the laundry being done but this is not the case in a lot of the areas, it is like being a prisoner after you sign the dotted line. FIG is reaping what they sowed little by little, they must be the laughing stock on the market I would hope.
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This is awesome...Holiday Corporate is trying to boost the ratings of themselves on glassdoor by giving 5 star reviews of the company on multiple reviews of its own company. Lets see...we are great because...we said so...We are the best place for seniors because...we said so...we have talented people at home office because...we said so..REALLY?
You have the right priorities in place? REALLY? Structure and bonus plans within facilities promotes teamwork.--Would you be referring to the bonuses that were cut at the start of the year? Its funny because there is no advice for senior management as to how it could be better because they actually believe like they are a perfect company with no flaws, you are great because you said so, The rules and policies change all the time based on whos working that day. One manager makes a rule and the other one breaks it making it impossible to enforce standards in the communities. I guess the truth about the company really hurts when its reviewed by actual people doesn't it...
Do yourself a favor, get a clue. The company is good on paper but that's as far as it goes. There's constant backstabbing at all levels of management, no matter how hard someone works, its never good enough. As far as everyone at the community level is concerned--the ONLY priority is move ins and you make that clear and present, what better way to make the thousands of people that pay your salary now feel more welcome that ignoring their needs and having events for outsiders only. Daily expectations to harass people on the phone who have no interest of moving in just to satisfy an quota on YGL? You have resident enrichment but most of the community managers spend most of the Actual Enrichment budget on crap.
Its not the things they get from bingo that enrich their lives as much as it is just spending the time with them and listening to them. At every turn the hours or budget to enrich get cut for XYZ event planning to bring in outsiders that the managers don't have time to plan themselves so it gets delegated to the EC's. The point is that there is not enough time or money budgeted for enrichment you want to have happen, most of it just gets wasted for marketing.
The point is that you do not care about the residents, you treat your employees (esp salaried) like slaves. Theres a constant fear of getting fired for no reason. Theres no time off without being made to feel guilty about taking time off..how does that make a company great? The fact is that there are still a lot of great employees that work for you that are overworked, under paid, and under-appreciated. Read the reviews, people are unhappy, they are not just bashing you, they are ashamed to work for a company who only cares about the money, not the seniors who choose to live there.. REALLY?
If its such a great place to work -- WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS LOOKING FOR MANAGERS?????
5 stars my hind end.
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LOL, Yes I noticed that too. It was pretty obvious by the wording and the fact that the reviews are otherwise overwhelmingly negative and consistent to the reality that is outlined in thousands of post here.
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To Really:
BRAVO - STANDING O FROM ME TO YOU!!!
You nailed it and very well said!!
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Really: I noticed that awhile ago on one of the glassdoor posting, someone was really feeding the bull on there as a troll. If anyone on here has not done so, you need to go to glassdoor and do a survey on Holiday Retirement and your experiences, just remember not to name names and if you are still an employee working use an alias name and area. The more people work together on this, the more feedback it will have from the true workers past and present.
Really you have nailed it on the head with the problems of money being used for other things, or in some cases managers who were tight fisted and wouldn't let anything be spent. Live entertainment was one thing that was always being cut to nothing, and believe me we did have some good entertainers out there who did the circuit. But of course if the residents complained it was to no avail. And God forbid if you put an event on that tied up their playing bingo, it is one of the small pleasures of life for them still.
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To Nightmare
Good idea - plus if you post this website on Glassdoor it will direct those to the reality of what this company is and is not.
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Bottom line its good the can opens and the worms start to come out. One day an evacuation order will be on the doors and the paychecks from now India will not arrive. Look at wall street and their numbers. This is about raping people. Who's money is buying training in 3 cities and interviews that require plane tickets every week and training every other week. The Sr's money is paying for that so all that want to work with Seniors when you sign up for what is too good to be true, a holiday on the Titanic, think of this those cute older people, are being charged a month for food that is only being spent at 4.49 a day equals 130 a month lower than poverty level, and the VA A&A program cut Holiday off. Who spends over 2 thousand dollars a month close to 3 thousand for a multi family housing unit an apartment building with low grade quality food they most can't eat. Bread is not on a diabetic diet but its cheap, and sleep at night. The company is sinking fast if you dig at the numbers they owe a 4 billion dollar loan in 2014 to the Sally Mae. So raise the rent and work your ass off to sickness and disease or a divorce. Or further in debt. Its a SCAM ! IT will be exposed on a national level. So the Reporters will be trying for an interview asking why you work to support a bill on Wall Street stealing from our Seniors. The Economy is going to fall again and they will be out of there anyway. The financial analysts have written it will be worse than the depression before and no one will have over 3 grand for a cheap built tiny apt with no amenities. What a con. Can't do it, don't want the karma or to face GOD one day and have stolen from the seniors with their walkers and canes. That is so so sad That is where the root of money came in as evil. Think about it when you're desperate for cash, its not only a lie, its stealing and conning. If you have integrity and honesty and charachter you won't be able to continue or jump in.... God Bless.
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I have had the pleasure of visiting the Holiday community where I managed 3 years ago. I was welcomed with open arms from so many residents and staff.... after talking to everyone, hearing how much they missed me... I felt I accomplish being one of the good managers they ever had, but the one thing I want say from my heart..They will never fully know how they touched my heart and will always be my special family that I truly love and miss....
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Really: you hit the nail on the head! As far as activities go, we used to be able to get quality entertainment in for the residents. In 2009 when they CUT the activity budget in 1/2 (for you newer ones out there...the activity budget used to be around 1500.)
They did not stop there because they also cut their hours from 40 to 32 a week. I am certain that money was re-assigned to marketing........
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Recent post on glassdoor from a csl reads:
We had 2 people die, a flood and a power outage while on call (24/7), no sleep and very upsetting night. Our RD called at 11am the next morning and wanted to know why we hadn't made sales calls yet?! We explained and his response (RD) was sign the right up I am sending by 5pm or else! We had never been written up ever in our careers. Talk about beat up!
REALLY??????
HEY JACK -- DO YOU JUST HATE YOUR EMPLOYEES OR WHAT? You should be ashamed for letting this go on when this is what you post on the holiday website.
Holiday Retirement was founded by William E. Colson, often recognized as the father of Independent Retirement Living, with his father Hugh Colson in 1971. At the time, William was operating Colson & Colson construction, specializing in building high-level care facilities for seniors – referred to as “nursing homes”. William and his father realized that while seniors were benefitting from the quality care they received in these facilities, they could be benefitting even more from a nurturing, community environment that met seniors’ other needs: social, physical, educational and spiritual, at an affordable, all-inclusive monthly rate. They opened their first independent retirement community in Vancouver, Washington in 1971. They continued to build properties across North America, and officially formed Holiday Retirement Corp. in 1987. In 1998, Holiday celebrated the opening of its 200th community, and today there are more than 300 Holiday Retirement senior living communities across the United States and Canada, and tens of thousands of seniors are enjoying the one-of-a-kind lifestyle only Holiday can provide. Although we have grown in size, we remain true to the core values instilled by William E. Colson, and are as committed now as he was then to improving the lives of seniors.
True to what values that Bill Colson had?...writing up managers for ignoring floods and deaths to make a sales call?..
I'm gonna go throw up now because thats just sick..
It should read at the end of that paragraph, Holiday Retirement now harrasses potential residents on a daily basis until they say f*** it and move in just to stop the phone calls. Our new core values of taking all your money, err holiday touch, means you will get a rent increase that rich people can't afford and then if you die, we will call and write your next of kin demanding money because you didn't turn in a 30 day notice when you had the heart attack from reading your rent increase letter! The letter reading, "to continue providing the best possible service to you" which means us closing the front office door 95%" of the day to harass more people like you to move in. The property manager is either on a conference call or a sales call, if your toilet overflows, just call 911, they will probably get someone up there faster than the guy running the place.
Welcome Home, Welcome to Holiday.
(When can I move in???)
REALLY???
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It's amazing what some people will do in order to keep the paycheck going - THAT'S RIGHT - YOU JACK CALLISON!! The way that you idiots allow management to treat the employees and even more so - the residents is absolutely appalling. And don't kid yourself, you know damn well it's happening.
All I can say is that when you're at the 'pearly gates' I hope justice is served. Greed is a powerful sickening trait to have and you're guilty as hell. Don't kid yourself that you're not because you know damn well that you are.
You should NEVER treat anyone like that, ESPECIALLY SENIORS!! They're the most vulnerable and you're a disgusting human being for allowing it to happen. And if you really don't know the real truth as to what's going on with your company, well ignorance is not an excuse. Shame on you. You have no idea how hard the staff works to try and make things pleasant for the residents and then you turds just allow these idiotic RSL's and RD's to run rough shot over everybody. None of you assholes could make it one week, let alone one month with the constant harrassement, the management and CSL's work their asses off, the Chef's work their butts off trying to put together decent meals with what little money that they now have to work with, and the housecleaning, maintenance staff work their butts off too. And who do they do that for? Not you assholes, but rather the residents that every single one of us thoroughly love and respect.
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It is so nice to see that someone sees the whole picture. So much of the post are all about how hard the Managers work and no time off. This is so true and I commend them for the work that they do for the residents or try to do with so little time allowed. It is all office work piled at them with the calls day in and day out, plus outside contact events. It's all Bull. I was a Chef in a community not so long back. I do have to say my residents were very happy with the food quality that was prepared on a beer budget when the the company expected champagn. Rediculous. I like how they interview for new executive chefs and tell them the line of crap, 48 hour work week, 2 days off, holidays, vacation. Impossible if you stay in budget, meet payroll, have a clean and sanitary kitchen. With the demands they started putting in place and no raise in the payroll budget to properly train. Holiday is looseing it. I kept in budget, had one of the cleanest kitchens, residents loved the food but I started seeing things slowly slipping as I was putting in 70 hours a week, working on my days off. I refused to be a slave to this company any longer. Since then, I sleep very well at night. Since I left recently, so many long term employees have also left. I think that says alot for how Holiday is. Maintence, housekeepers, long term kitchen staff, and enrichment coordinator has since left. Now what I hear is the residents are discutted with the food and the serves they are provided. Can only be 1 of 2 thing or both. Desperate and hire anyone, or not the proper training. As for the food quality, that falls on the Regional Chefs. Which in turn probably couldn't perform the job them selves as they expect it to be done. Not only all that, what they won't do to save a buck. Get rid of everyone in home office, sell the building to get a small office space and out source the payroll to India. Really? You take jobs away from our country to employ foreign countries. How ameerican is that. Jack Callison has no clue about the RED WHITE & BLUE. He needs to move to India and manage his new found employees. If he is married, he would probably sell his wife to make a buck. Anyone that has anything to do with Holiday from residents to the staff in the comunities, I really feel sorry for you. Good Luck
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'Thank God to be Gone'......very true. Not many Chef's on here. When I was there last year, our Chef worked God only knows how many hours, coming in on her days off, putting up with the same insane expectations as the rest of us. I know they were giving her less to work with for a budget - let me see, the cost of food has gone up, let's decrease the budget!! Makes perfect sense!! My God, what a bunch of morons.
Well, as your 'name' indicates, I too, am glad to be gone. It's a real shame as I love working with seniors. And I gotta believe that other retirement communities are not all run this crappy.
Best of luck to everyone who has moved on. And to those of you that are still there, I wish you the best of luck too. Just keep on looking for another gig. Life is too short to be putting up with those A-holes for very long.
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Last year at this time, this property had only on one apartment left to rent and now today, this ad on craigslist...
http://austin.craigslist.org/sls/3249936703.html
I'll post some of the funnier lines here...
"Work closely with Community and Regional team to achieve the Community's sales goals through lead generation and lead conversion activities such as developing relationships with qualified referral sources, establishing public relations events to promote goodwill in the community, conducting tours with potential residents and their families, and closing sales."
lol
"Must have a minimum of three year's experience in a direct sales role, or do not apply!
Must have experience with CRM sales programs, or do not apply!"
"Base salary in the 35K range based on Experience. $350 commission for each move in. The company has a minimum quota of between 4 to 6 move-ins/month depending on the market. The goal is 8 move ins per month. If you are performing at a minimum level of the 4 to 6 move-ins per month, you will be making between $49K - $56K per year."
I've NEVER seen a Holiday ad on craigslist so I figure they must be hurting and so I made a call today...
The property that was at 99% a year ago is now at 78%.
Good!
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To Jojo
Interesting how the folks who answer the e calls, receive guests at 1:00 a.m., clean an explosion in the common area bathrooms, ETCETERA can get paid less than a CSL. Interesting indeed.
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It is amazing the ostrich with their heads in the dirt routine that is employed by home office. The RD's they have should have to work in the community for 6 months at least under some of the same conditions they are forcing their management teams and chefs to work under.
And you know I think the Colson's were Seven Day Adventist I believe, but they never pushed their religion on any management or communities and this I am sure is how and why they were successful in business, they built the business with religious principals behind them, something now that is not even thought of. Jesus would hang his head in shame at the tactics being used now.
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JoJo: I thought this was one of the better properties also. Guess they ran it into the ground too.
I like this line from the add:
including cold calling, presentations, and attending local functions in the surrounding community. Assist in maintaining sales and marketing collateral... The only way you will be attending local functions in the community is on your day off, or leave your partner with the whole building, including if a server doesn't show up, or dishwasher, etc. and they have to do the work.
And now they need college, oh boy, who do they think is going to drink this Kool-aid, how much schooling do they need to interpret sales data; if you ain't renting and they are moving out faster than you can keep them in, then what's the point.
Definite idiots grasping at straws, I don't even like their mentioning that it is Holiday Retirement on these websites, it is not, it is Fortress Investment Group. What took 30+ years to build has been destroyed in 6 years.
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I wish I could have worked for Holiday before FIG bought them 6 yrs ago. I've been gone since last year and as you can tell by my previous post (sorry for the language) that I deeply resent companies that treat their employees and even more so the residents like they do.
In the short time that I was there, I could write a book of what I saw and heard. I guess we all could. It's truly amazing what people will do in this country for 'greed'. Hopefully it will come back to haunt them later in life.
Ironic how someone mentioned above that the only way that you'll be attending functions in the community is on your day off. I was a CSL and I couldn't even get out in the field very much. Had to make those stupid calls in YGL - most of which were nothing but names and phone numbers. They just recycled the same ole' dead beat leads.
It's hard to believe that Holiday was once an outstanding company before Bill Colson sold it. So sad in how FIG has run it into the toilet. All they care about is the almighty $$.
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Richard... I worked for holiday retirements flag ship in cool springs im not afraid of retaliation because they have already done that. for three years the corporation knew about existing termite problems three years later after burried it in corporation bs 50% of the residents balconys are dangerous with soft spots the pillars that hold up the balconys 75% of them have nothing but nothing in them solid wood beams are gone patios are shut down residents who pay 5300 dollars or more are with out balconies and still they let them use them!! i also agree the residence come first! i was forced to resign because of hostile management who simply would not let us service our community and the people we loved we saw four management teams and csl come and go in our building each management team took away more and more of the duties we were hired for and created a hostile work enviourment all they hire is management teams are GM'S which stands for (greedy monster's)not all GM'S are like that! most preach the Christian way but bow to the almighty dollar corporate as we know it now has changed independent living to assit living by recurting residence in rehab who can no longer live on there own talk them into selling there houses taking out VA loans and bald face lie to them to recruit new residence i am sadend that some ones mother and father are shoved in to a meat locker to make money for a new corporation that doesnt stand up for the rights of there community or workers
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We met several sets of managers/co-managers who all had the same story. They took the job believing they would be an intergal part of a management team. But after training (whatever training of the month it was) they were sent to buildings where they became coffee pourers. They were not allowed to do ANYTHING but give the managers days off. This happened to us and it was very frustrating and disheartening - and we worked very hard when we became managers to empower our co's (I hope we did). I would really like to hear if this was just us - or was it as wide spread as we think it was. It is no wonder to me that Holiday goes through managers like water - the whole job is based on lies.
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it is normal now - no one is prepared to actually run a community and the managers in place are either scared that you will be better than them or they are ego maniacs etc that just want you there to give them a day off. Usually egomaniacs
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Wow ya'll - it used to be that you just got 6 rah rah emails for a move in - now you get them just for scheduling a tour. When will this micro managing ever stop??? We have residents, staff and a building to care for - PLEEEEASE stop the BS.
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Can anyone tell me where the RSL is who works out of Mobile. His name is Carlos Keith?
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Here's a funny story that some of you may have been in on...
We have regional RAH RAH conference calls where each property will say how many move ins they will have for the week and WHO ARE YOUR TOP 3 HOT LEADS!!!
One property, I think it was in San Antonio, said that their top 3 leads were named Dewey, Cheatum and Howe.
All the properties were quiet and our RD...who shall go nameless(jl)..was all happy and whatnot...and moved on to the next property...
The VERY next day, we all had ANOTHER regional conference call and it started off with the RD warning us all that we better not be MAKING NAMES UP!!!
LOL!!!
He didn't get it and apparently after the first conference call somebody informed him as to what Dewey, Cheatum and Howe was...
Oh that was funny...kudos to the managers who did that!
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LOL, that's hilarious.
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that is too funny, when our RD would come visit we had a code name, to let everyone know he was coming...ron moore....now say the last name first and the first name last.............
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That is hilarious!! I love it. And I'm sure no matter what RD that it was for - It's a perfect nickname for all of them!! Ah, thanks for the laugh.
Has anyone jumped on 'GlassDoor' lately? Somebody from corporate must have jumped on there and left a couple of glowing reviews. And one of them said something like 'it is too bad that former employees leave reviews like this after they were let go'!! What a piece of work they are!! Working for Holiday (at least since FIG bought it) is like working for the devil.
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To JoJo
I am laughing my you know what off - too funny. I will have to share that one with my CSL. Not my co's who I cannot believe are stabbing us in the backs. I thought I left that shizz when I left former community. Good bit of news on that front, those 2 finally got the long, overdo Karma heave ho!!
Yep - had it up to my eyebrows. Off to an interview tomorrow so fingers crossed I can tell this company to BLOW.
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Good Luck!!!
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To Jackson:
Thank you! And guess what, HOLIDAY - GO BLOW!!
We got the job! Speaking to the reason why we are leaving wasn't that difficult because these people have heard it over and over again. We were told they are hiring quite a few "good people from Holiday". You bet! Holiday's loss and their gain.
And being a good sport, I am giving a two week's notice.
Have a great day everyone!!
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Wahoooooo!!!! That's fantastic. All my best to you in this next, hopefully wonderful, endeavor.
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RichardS: I hope that anyone who knows about glassdoor that are employees, or past employees jump on and post. You are right it looks like a glowing report by someone who is trying to make them look good, the language is just too perfect to be someone other than a troll. Too bad they can't counter all the negative comments though.
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Deflated Again: Congratulations on the new job, I hope it really is a lot better for both of you. I know it was a lot less stress after we were gone just in not having to put up with all the baloney all the time and employees fighting, etc, makes you feel like a whole new person.
I know your residents will be heartbroken though, that is the hardest part of leaving, so good luck there.
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To Nightmareworld
THANK YOU.
I slept the best I have last night.
Too true. It was torture leaving residents in the last community and I know this will be even less so. sigh
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Wow, wow, wow. I know I should be running for the hills but we are to start training soon and then off to a community. We have requested the west/mid-west where the RD there is named Phil..any advice? I heard the company is going public? Do you think that will make a difference on how it is managed and their policies since they will have to answer to stockholders?
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Good Luck that is all I could tell you. After reading all the stories you have read on this blog and went thru the interview process and now accepted a job, you are going into his with your eyes wide open. Oh, and do not believe it won't happen to you because it will. We worked for over 8 years and gave up so much with our families because we loved our job and the residents. We were never wrote up until Bobbie Reid put in a snitch couple who called her and Betty Aberg about everything. Names change they no longer work for Holiday because what goes around comes around. This company pits people against each other. We are still friends with our co's and floaters, and most of all the residents. Good Luck after 2 weeks training they are throwing you too the dogs. They are desperate for managers there are posting jobs on Craigs list. How funny.
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I know Phil. He is actually one of the nicer RD's. He's over Arizona and West Texas.Good luck!
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Poor Newbie....Realize this: I doubt that Holiday will go public anytime soon, perhaps not in our lifetime. There are soooo many holes in their finances, don't spend your 401K money yet. If you haven't gotten the point of FIG micro managing and demeaning the empolyees by reading this blog, then just wait for it...yes wait for it. Sorry Virginia there is no Santa Claus and Holiday is no Holiday
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Newbie: I don't believe they are going to be going public, they do not have the census up to 95% or above; this has been on going now for the last year and they are doing worse now than they were last year.
Nothing prepares you for the sudden drop into a job where the training is so scant, they didn't even have the new ones who replaced us trained in Kronos.
Your place in the community will be according to what position you are filling, manager or co-manager. Once upon a time each set were responsible for different things as ownership, one may have been better at AR, or AP, then payroll, maintenance, servers, etc. Now who knows, it is according to how much ego you are having to deal with out of the other couple.
I would suggest that you make sure you save as much money as you can for the day when you get the boot like all the others. Don't take everything you own or can afford to move again at your expense.
Be ready for employees who have more years in than management, hard to control sometimes. And be ready to fill-in for anyone who does not show up for a shift, esp during cold weather.
Expect to stay on the phone making calls constantly to people who couldn't care less to hear from you week after week. Plan on constant parties inviting people who just come for the food.
The residents can be sweet and lovable, or the worst nightmare acting like 2yr olds. Some will try your patience to no ends, but you will have to be the role model and problem solver and peacemaker; wait till the fight over someone sitting in a person's "chair" at mealtime (no assigned seating, no names on chairs work) of course that doesn't mean the person won't pout and threaten not to come to meals for the weekend.
Good luck, I hope you have an easy time and make a lot of new friends, so many residents have such history that will be lost one day.
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I meant MORE so. I am so frustrated I am the one leaving. The thing is everyone will answer to someone or something at the end. Right?
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To Newbie:
EVERYTHING here is the truth. I too looking at this blog for the first time had a hard time believing, until I too am becoming a statistic. Region does pit people against people. The whole going public is just an excuse to torture, micromanage, humiliate, chew up and spit out. Like it was said, don't pack more than you can afford to move yourself. SAVE your MONEY. This company is nothing but a revolving door of sheople's who have no clue of what is going to befall them. Maybe not this year, maybe not after 8 years as earlier stated, but it will happen. GOOD LUCK and BE WARNED.
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Thank you everyone for your candid and truthful accounts of what it is like working for Holiday. The realism of what everyone writes is very frightening and has given me reason to pause and think if this is what I really want to pursue....hmm...
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You will save yourself from a lot of Heartache............
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Newbie.....I'll say this. Every single post that I've seen on here has been dead on accurate and truthful. The sad reality is that virtually everyone who works at a retirement community of some sort loves seniors. That's why you wanted to interview for the job in the first place. But the company is so insanely screwed up with short term thinking that is absolutely wrong on a number of levels. They're unethical as hell - the VAA program which has since been modified by the VA because of companies like Holiday not using it appropriately.
Bottom line is the FIG when they Holiday back in 2006 paid top dollar for the company at the peak of the market. And then the recession hit them, especially independent retirement living communities which is what Holiday is. Many seniors either don't want to sell their home (after they've seen the home plummet in value over the last 4 to 5 yrs now) or they can't sell it. So many of them have decided to just continue living at home. And then if something does happen to them with their health, they will move straight into an Assisted Living community and completely bypass Holiday altogether.
It is very very sad on how the company has been run now over the last 5 to 6 yrs or so. They've lost so many dedicated, talented mgmt teams, CSL's, Chef's, etc. There is virtually no 'work/life' balance either.
It's a real shame, it really is. And like I've posted before, the ones that I really feel sorry for are the residents. Because a lot of those folks can't move. And it's an extremely stressful feeling for a senior to think about having to move, even if they have the financial means to do it. The way that they jack up people's rents, and for some of those seniors they've been paying rent for years and they're on a fixed income. But in some Holiday communities, the senior was given a deep discount as a way to get them into the building, that when their 12 months is up, they're sometimes hit with a sizable rent increase.And now Holiday wants the standard price for the room. And they do this with a number of rooms sitting empty!!
I don't know your financial situation and I understand that sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. But I would absolutely recommend keep on looking for a different job.
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Many comments make reference as to seeking a "life after Holiday". Allow me to offer a single example - ours.
We officially ceased employment on January 9, 2009, were given an extra two weeks pay and our bonuses earned. I believe we and the company parted on mutually good terms, considering we had refused a transfer. I have spoken of this much earlier on the blog. While I usually do not offer personal insights I will make an exception for the following:
Due to our having the foresight to have a "getway" place for our days off we suffered no financial hardships with our moving. We had decided to retire again and just sit back for awhile. That "awhile" was getting frustrating after several months and we were beginning to look around for something to do. We had learned a good lesson while with Holiday: We did not want to have our residence dependent upon our jobs if we went back to work.
With Holiday we put just over three thousand net in the bank each month as a couple (like all of you did). Not bad, considering. What we had not expected was to lose our Social Security because of our jobs. We had exceeded the limits we could earn and Social Security stopped our old age monthly checks cold. Not only did this happen, but we had to pay back all overages they tallied us with. To any of you drawing benefits beginning at age sixty-two - be aware of what I said. It can happen to you. We are receiving our SS checks once more and will never undergo that problem again.
My wife and I talked at length whether we would stay retired or go back to work. If we returned to work did we want full or part time? We decided on part time for various reasons. I applied for a single job online with Walmart in June of '09 and was hired. I worked for just over a year in maintenance, then took a five month hiatus. I returned as a sales associate in hardware/paint department and working 32 hours per week. I normally have three days off in a row during the week. This puts a thousand dollars in the bank for me each month. I truly enjoy what I do at Walmart, the work, the customers, and the people I work with.
My wife works part time as a marketer for a large company and adds her earnings to the bank each month. With our respective SS monies it adds up.
But there is something else we enjoy. When we punch the time clocks at the end of our work day - we are DONE! No one calls us for anything, no one knocks on the door about something needing fixing or help. We are at home relaxing. We rent a 2 bath, 3 bedroom on 1 1/2 acres for $450 per month, have privacy and the freedom to enjoy it. We may never buy another home - we aren't sure. We can take what we call "mini-trips" each week if we desire. Sometimes we drive down to the coast for saltwater fishing and a hotel, other times we meander around enjoying the little towns we find, or we sit and read. It works for us! I have time for my writing, space for my hobbies, the bills are paid, and we dine exceptionally well (due to my wife's culinary expertise). Growing old isn't too bad under these circumstances.
I tell you this so you have options. We are old enough so that we are not seeking careers of some type, but simply putting a little aside while enjoying ourselves (68 & 66). You can do the same if you decide to. Frugality is not a sin - and it pays big dividends. And yes, we still talk about our residents - and miss them terribly.
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I am so happy for you DL..That is what retirement is for. I can hardly wait until I can sit and do nothing or just do what I want!!! So glad Holiday quit ruling my life!!!
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DL: it sounds like you have the perfect balance now and ability to smell the roses. In the past if say I were by myself, Holiday would have been perfect in the old days, it offered the safety and security to women esp and the not having to keep up with the house repairs and all that bother, but not now I am afraid.
I think we all will miss all of our residents, just think we met over 300 people and their families, some good, some bad. And yes it is nice not getting woke up at all hours with overflowing bathtubs at 3am, ghost phone calls. I know we made a difference in the lives of many folks that we truly loved to call family (even the rotten ones most of the time).
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Thanks, guys. Another nice perk is if we decide to relocate anywhere in the country we can transfer, knowing a job is waiting for us wherever we go. We won't have to be concerned about selling a home or supporting two places. We figure we still have several years left before we are unable to work and be totally retired. Once you pass 65 - in most cases - any degrees, certificates, and job titles mean very little. You are just a senior citizen now.
Do we miss taking care of our residents? We do. Do we miss working for Holiday? In some ways we do. The obvious lack of concern for employees and residents is what caused our decision to leave. It has only gotten worse.
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DL...HUSH
As for missing Holiday.... HELL NO,
Not under the current managment of Jack Callison and his cronies.
Do we miss Holiday under the management of the Colson's, HELL YES.
I think anyone who worked for Holiday "before" it was sold to FIG loved working for them. Times were just as tough to get a building up to 100% occupancy but if and when you did, you were so very much appreciated. You wanted to be on that 100% weekly occupancy list.
Or, when you Regional Director showed up and he issued the Get-a-way vouchers. You always knew you were appreciated.
Please don't get me wrong, there were some juicy RD's as well in the past especially when the BLS's started to come into the company. They were idiots as well, at least some of them.
I still manage a retirement community with about 170 residents but certainly will not now or ever again work for Holiday Retirement.
I just don't understand why residents stay there these days. There are choices enough everywhere and 99% of the time, the rents are far cheaper with much better service(s).
Thanks DL for this blog, it is always good to read it.
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Hello all..just wanted to thank you for this blog. It was very instrumental in us deciding NOT to decline the Co-Manager employment opportunity that was offered to us. It took some real soul searching and hours of reading what others had to say for us to finally say okay enough, we have heard enough. Thanks again and I hope for all of you that are still employed that you find a way to work within this terribly "flawed" system or find the new job of your dreams. Fortunately for us, we have jobs currently and thus do not have to commit to Holiday Retirement.
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Opps..I meant to say to NOT pursue employment...we declined.
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best decision you ever made.. Until the company gets sold to people that can right it right --its just going to continue to be living hell working for that company.
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Something is shaking in the world of Floaters - anyone want to share???
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Rumor has it that they are not going to use hourly floaters, they are only going to use Salaried Floaters. Mostly using Managers who have stepped down.
Good Luck!
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Floaters nationwide had a class action suit for not getting OT while having to clock-in that was settled. So, Floaters will all be done away with. To be replaced by "Specialists" or "Bench Co's" to fill in within a region.
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I echo that comment. You just saved yourself more heartache, frustration, getting so pissed off at the idiotic mgmt teams who are nothing but little mind numbing fleas who will constantly harass you, threaten you, etc, etc, etc.
BEST decision you ever made. As with everyone else who's posted on here - I just wish the residents could find another place to live. They deserve FAR better in their final years of life. That's what really pisses me off. Seniors are vulnerable and Holiday knows it.
It's all about the almighty $$$. Bastards. I probably shouldn't say this, but Jack Callison and all of his henchmen - may all of you rot in hell.
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Newbie: I know no one would want you to turn this job down and celebrate that you did unless we all were right and you made the best decision. We thought it was our calling initially when we started years ago, but the went down the tubes. It is a shame that FIG took a well known business and ran it into the ground. If I were a millionaire I would have adopted the same business plan that the Colson's used, it worked, it may have needed updating in some areas such as more hours for servers and more help in the kitchen, but it was sound otherwise.
I am glad you still have a current job so you are not having to find employment.
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still hell in the kitchen. posted a few times. hourly worker here.
managers are barking orders, and not doing much.
co's are still clueless and trying to do the brunt of the work. this just makes the managers bark more orders.
chef has given up on trying to be part of the management team since the other 4 have no idea how/want to do anything.
maintenance is still a joke.
all 4-5 sales people we have coming and going aren't doing much but talking about their leads who always bail.
food is still tasty, rooms are still clean, and activities are as lively as ever but boy is it tough to work with these people
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anon: I doubt it got any better since I think most of the old management employees are now gone and the new ones don't have a clue and can't possibly learn everything they need to know in a 2-3wk time frame.
Sorry that it is still bad in the kitchens. Unfortunately though some of our employees there made it a lot worse on themselves with their constant baloney, sexual misconduct, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to put out fires that had gotten started. And then to top it off the cooks who had been there forever did what they wanted too, it was like pulling teeth to get cookies made for the residents even once a week.
The worse thing is the chef and management should be on the same team and helping each other as much as possible and backing each other up. I have written one head chef up in years past when he decided to be an %%% over some rotten bananas he sent out to the diningroom. He went spastic when I asked him about them, it would have been better to not send any out and deal with the residents than rotten ones. I was just a co and guess it was never done before, but.. there's a first time for everything. The manager had basically forced out the previous chef because an employee didn't like him, he was too military like, hah that is what the kitchen needed. He had the place cleaned up and cooked great meals. She did not like him because she could not buck him and get away with it.
Do the best you can and stay ahead of the game that I know changes every minute somedays. The old guidelines I doubt are even being used and they have come up with so many alternate meals now that take extra time to prepare that was not figured in 20 yrs ago on the time frames. Heck they were always fighting about who should put up the groceries at our place.
We did have a good maintenance director until he married and stepped down, but his hands were tied then too. I imagine it is even worse now with the low census rates, no money in means no money spent and properties falling apart. Look at who they have to blame on this, it starts at the very top with corporate who has no clue what to do.
They have run off a lot of people who truly cared, this included some of the EC's who have been dogged out with comments about their age. Ours was a great one who even cooked really fancy meals for prospective residents in the activity room and had the cloth tablecloths and the fixings. They lost the bell choir and many other things when she quit. She did win her unemployment though because of discrimination.
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fortunately, our kitchen staff for the most part follows guidelines and isnt part of the group you describes (not listening, not caring)
the chef has great ideas and can cook like no other, i just wish he'd be more strict. not that he isnt already, but he can get kind of in the dumps about management and kind of let down his authority with the rest of the staff.
the extended menu and extra cooking is tough at times, but with a good staff, it shouldnt be a problem. it's just having 4 managers telling you 4 different things, then the sales people coming in and negating all that and changing it, then the EC comes in a changes it. thats what gets annoying.
i'm currently in the process of getting with another company (outside of the retirement circuit) cross your fingers
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Anyone ever turn in a two week notice, and NOT get paid for it? How about RD says you will stop working earlier, BUT will pay you said 2 weeks IF you sign their evil separation notice, which I am not signing because of the way it is written. One of the things it states is we would no longer be eligible for rehire. I am disgusted.
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Funny.... same RD did that to me too.... Had to sign some evil form to "get paid". I didn't want to make a scene so I signed it. Think I got paid? NOPE! sigh...
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When I left as a CSL mid-way through the month, I had 3 sales MTD and I did not get paid a penny for them. I then read through the paperwork that you sign when you start with the company and sure enough, they can legally 'stiff' you for the commissions. I've NEVER had that happen to me before by anybody. As a sales rep, any sales that you make prior to leaving the company you get paid the normal commission on on the next regular pay period after leaving.
I guess that shows you what kind of character the company has. Dirt bags.
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Not that I am defending Holiday, but any company I have worked for you had to be still employed when bonuses and/or commissions were paid out to be eligible for them. I didn't expect any of my commissions to be paid for after I left. And it was pretty clear in the guidelines that they would not be paid out.
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To John:
If you do the work, you should get the pay out.
If an employee owes the company any money for any reason they expect to be paid back. They will withhold from final check if necessary.
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I agree with you (obviously) - but the employment paperwork that you sign when you start with the company states (going off memory) that you have to be employed to get your commission (or bonus) payouts. Just another sign of how shitty company it is.
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As I mentioned previously, I have NEVER had a company do that. You earned the commission before you left the company. I've worked for numerous Fortune 500 companies and they've always paid me my earned commissions. Just goes to show you what type of company Holiday is. Cheap and unethical.
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I wonder if anyone has a copy of that separation notice, or could tell me if it also says no legal action can be pursued towards Holiday?
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To: RichardS
We made a point of saying we need to be paid for the move ins during a specific time frame and we had better not get stiffed for those.
To: Glad to Be Gone
I have it and I am sure in the fine print it states that - so aggravated at most of it didn't read entirely mostly because of the fact that I have no intention of signing it.
We voluntarily quit and are being treated like those I have seen who got terminated. SAD
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We voluntarily Quit also and had $2500.00 for move ins coming we didn't get paid for either.
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Play their game. Maybe it is a little dishonest, but considering who you are dealing with. If you are leaving on your own tell them that you want to be floaters, but need time off before you start. You are still employed and will get your bonus. After you get your money resign. This worked for us, but it was 3 years ago.
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To Concerned:
As great as a suggestion as that is, we have accepted a job with competitor. Glad to hear you got yours!!
To Penn State Fan:
I have another way to get my money back and when the time comes, will exercise that option.
To RichardS:
I agree - ETHICAL companies do what is right by their employees.
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anon: hope you can get the new job. I am sure it will be better somewhere else and less stress; I think even a buffet type restaurant would be better.
Yes I can imagine it is really hard on the chef with too many bosses in the kettle, when there is not any clear plan to lead; it makes life there a lot more aggravating than what it should be.
I hope they don't loose him as a chef if he is doing a great job, esp with the budget and all the other choices at meal time. I liked some of the extended menu choices our chef would come up with; some were great, so-so.
That was why I was saying they needed to have more hours in the kitchen and a little more help, not all kitchens have a prep cook and I think they should have someone who could work on the desserts a little bit more. The original plan was one meal only of the same thing for everyone, not changes like a lot of people want on their plate now. The server could just pick up 4 plates of food and go
with it and there was not as many dishes used, esp at lunchtime where now if a resident wants 3 salads he gets it.
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Newest 5 star review for Holiday on glassdoor -- all 5 star rating....
“Never A Dull Moment”
Current Employee – Reviewed 2 days ago – New
Pros – The residents - that is why we are here!
Future growth/ advancement
Forward thinking company
Cons – Not focusing on the retention of your great teams!
Advice to Senior Management – People are you greatest investment and your greatest resource - make them a focus!
5 stars???? REALLY???
We are great cause we said so...WAKE UP FOLKS!!!
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I just posted a little taste of reality on GlassDoor. My God, that 5 star review is obviously somebody from corporate. How pathetic.
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Haha - regardless of what a corporate troll is posting on Glassdoor, people who research, like Newbie, will not be fooled.
Changed screen my name to reflect how at peace I am feeling - so looking forward to the grassroots approach that is non-existent with Holiday.
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haha - regardless of what a corporate troll is posting on Glassdoor people who do their research like Newbie, will not be fooled.
Posting this comment a second time as it didn't appear to go thru the first.
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We write about Karma and the role it plays at Holiday....well here's a good one. My Cos, fresh out of the 2 week "boot camp" felt they were more knowledgeable than my wife and I,with 3 years experience at the community as managers. They felt their life experiences were better suited for management. Their constant back stabbing led to our discharge in May.It seems they found out the RD, purported to be their best friend, had been advertising their job on Craigslist, GlassDoor, etc. for the past 5 weeks. They will be done at Holiday next week.
In hind sight, if you need a job really bad and have to work at Holiday, stay a co.
By the way, Holiday is making a major recruiting drive at college campus sites throughout the US.
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I am not a smart man, therefore, life holds many, many mysteries for me.
The biggest mystery, one which I will NEVER understand, is why a co-manager couple would go through so much trouble trying to become managers.
We have had 3 sets of cos try their hardest to get us fired over 5 years.
What is the appeal of being a manager? We don't understand!
The last property we went to, we told them beforehand, we will only transfer if we can become co-managers again. We DO NOT WANT TO BE MANAGERS!
No problem! they said! Within 2 weeks the managers were fired and we were forced to become managers.
Along come the new cos, fresh from "traning" who proceeded to do EVERYTHING they could to get us fired.
We quit after a few months. They were "promoted" to managers and I hehard they were very happy!
They were fired 2 months later...
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My wife and I are Co's and yes we want to be managers someday soon. At the same time burning bridges is not good. I don't always get along with our Managers but I would not try to burn them. That is a very big sign of people who have no idea what teamwork means. People who try to get people fired are not thinking ahead. Help the managers... when you can. Who do you think is responsible for seeing you stay with the company or become managers yourself? Do I always get along with my managers? No.... but that is life.... it is the same everywhere. There will always be someone you don't like. If you don't like it here with Holiday.... then you should leave.... just like any other job. Find something else. People can tell when you are unhappy.... it is better to be happy anyway.
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I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind saying what state that you were co's and then mgr's in? I'm curious because that scenario sounds eerily similar to my community last year. I was a CSL.
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I'm certain our scenario is being played out nationwide, but, not to be too specific, we are west of the Mississippi, east of California, North of Mexico and south of Nebraska.
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Big news today at Holiday. first they hiring 200 CSL's within the next month. Any community that is below 85% will have 6 CSLs, 5 for 85% to 90%, 2 for 90% to 95%. All outside activities are stopped, i.e. leads club, chamber events, etc. The RSL says "We own you for 5 days a week". The inmates are running the asylum.
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Yeah--lets spend 3000/mo x 200 ppl = 600,000 a month for the next few months--what happens when they get above 95% --just fire everybody? and tell people they all just wanted to spend more time with their family--wheres all the csl's going to pound phones lines on -- the kitchen phone? ec's phone? thats right everyone gets their own laptop and cellphone--figure that amount of money into the equation--once again--corporate throwing money at a problem hoping it will go away---I got news the csl's arent the problem--its the staffing model and the budgets...go fix those dummies and the move ins will come..
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That is hilarious. My God, this company is even more stupid than I thought they were. They're a disgrace to the industry. I can't believe that they would actually have up to 6 CSL's in a community. That is so completely stupid, it's unbelievable. Jack Callison - you're an absolute idiot.
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managed in FL and RichardS: We ourselves preferred being a co, we liked the days off we had so when or if we had to run home we could and get back in the wee hours Tues and still get a few hours sleep before it all started again. The only reason we considered being a manager was to save the residents from another round of new managers who were not trained or had a clue or didn't give a hoot for them. This was not to be because the RD had other ideas. But that is ok they didn't stay long either before they were fired and the RD was invited to change the company affiliation also.
Another stupid plan, and I wonder what age group they are going to get from colleges, guess it might be a start for a new person but I don't see them staying long with all of FIG tactics. They of course may not be married also, so is it back to the one operation manager and the sales force. And who is the "RSL" referring to owning 5 days a week, the new "CSL". Wonder how they think the newbie's are going to twist arms for a person to move in that hasn't already been done in the past. Oh well let's see how long this mayhem lasts.
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Another lifesaver being thrown out, just think lost reputation is not going to be countered by 6 CSL's trying to sell and market. If they can afford that many people, who of course they are most likely going to pay peanuts with a bonus for each move-in, instead why not hire just one or two CSL's and then drop the rent some on the residents who are already there and new persons renting, hire a couple more staff for the kitchen and add another server at lunch and supper, more hours for carpet cleaning, and more help for cleaning such as common areas, bathrooms, and trash emptying and a dedicated person on the weekend for odd jobs like that. Go back to having things like candlelight suppers for the residents only with just them being able to invite close friends or family, family buffets for the holidays before the holiday hits. Get back to the genteel, calm days of old. And when was the last time any kitchen qualified for any awards. And why not advertise a little on TV, but then the buildings would have to be at better standards than they are now in the way apartments look (do they have chipped, old cabinets and tops, outdated fixtures,etc., is the furniture in the common areas outdated and nasty looking.
Of course hiring people is a different write off on taxes, then you have all those empty apartments just sitting there not making money at all which I guess is another write off of a different type, then eventually you'll have the CSL's to either fire or layoff and that will raise those taxes up which will be another tax write off. They got it figured to their benefit no matter what or how many lives they ruin.
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Here's the plan: Major recruiting at college level to get college students. Pay them a salary, paint the rosy picture of the elusive bonus. I expect Holiday will put them up in the community. Offer meals, free apt, utilities, etc. Nothing to move but some clothes, all have cell phones and laptops. Load YGL, pay a stipend for their phones and that's it.
I orginally thought they were shopping for management newbies. I guess I missed the mark. With a poor ecomomy I bet that Holiday has no problem duping these kids.
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Here's a little "quick insider" CSL's are now sleeping with the RSL and RD to keep their jobs when they are way below census month after month! True fact! Seen a struggling CSL coming out an RSL's hotel room pretty late at night, or should I say very early morning! Little did they know someone else from the company was nearby and heard the whole sexual act happening! Next thing you know, this struggling CSL that previously was written up for "not meeting" is being awarded for most improved! Say WHAT?!?!! Oh and a supposed happily married RSL with 4 children to boot. This same CSL had previously been seen in public having a very close private dinner with the RD a few months prior. When word got around, guess what?! RD and RSL are no longer "BFF's". Disgusting what some people will do to keep their jobs!!
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2fab4u: Please email me at thefreebornman@yahoo.com -- I will give you my number. Thanks, dlcharles
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2fab4u: Please contact me as I have some information to share with you which you might find interesting. Thanks, dlcharles
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To: 2fab4u
Interesting. Is this action happening in the wild, wild west??
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Sure is! Exactly that, the wild, wild west!
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I bet I know who you are referring to. Karma will visit those who misbehave. Can't happen soon enough.
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hence the reason I chose to go quietly. I know it will come back and bite them in the butt soon enough
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Please, if you would be so kind to share when it does??
I thank you in advance.
=)
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I'm almost sure you will know before me
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I have some questions & am hoping you guys will answer in the spirit of just being honest...
1. Do most communities only do the Take 10 when corporate is there?
2. When CSL or managers hook someone & get them to come in & have a meal, is it common to put them at the guest table & then go off to the managers table to eat and BS while the guests sit and stare out across the dining room?
3. Do EC's use all of the EC budget to put on these friday saturday sunday events, plan the events, set up the events and execute the events while the CSL & managers stay in the office & it's just another day of phone calling for them? The "team" will come over to eat some food or whatever is being served and go right back to the telemarketing room. Is this typical?
I am sincerely wondering if this is what is "normal" for this company or is my place bass ackwards. I was raised a little bit different that most of my co-workers I think...
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1) Not sure what you mean by Take 10 when Corporate is there? A 10 minute lunch or something?
2) The mgr's should ALWAYS ask one of your 'resident ambassadors' in the community if they would mind sharing their table with the guests? Almost any resident ambassador enjoys doing it and they'll be happy to help out. This way, the guests can talk to a couple of residents and get the straight scoop instead of some CSL or Mgr spewing God knows what out of their mouths. The resident ambassador(s) can be one of your greatest allies in terms of getting new move-insw.
3) My experience regarding the EC's is that their budgets were so tight, it didn't take much to shoot through it. Not sure what type of events that you're talking about - if it's an 'in house' event (for current residents only) then most CSL's or Mgr's would probably not participate much. But if it's for new potential residents that come in for the event, then absolutely, the CSL and Mgr's should be there.
What is normal? Well, it is most certainly NOT Holiday Retirement. Leaving that company ended up being one of the best days of my life.
Good luck to you though.
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Take 10 is a stand up meeting that is suppose to be done every morning with all staff that are there.
Sales Marketing events have nothing to do with the residents. Residents are allowed to come but they are advertised heavily and telemarketed to hook people to come in. EC budget is dependent on the size of the community and ranges in the 800 a month and up ranges.
When tours are eating managers and csl are strategizing about the discovery and how to close the deal without letting them leave the building after lunch. Ambassadors are always happy to join new people, not usually placed with tours...
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Just wondering...I was looking at the glassdoor site and the salaries listed. Does anyone know if the co-manager salary listed is for 2 people or 1? Seems like 2 sets of 2 co-managers would equal out around $100K. Is that right?
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1)We only did "Take 10" when RD was there. We held our own, more efficient, morning meetings otherwise.
2)We sit the prospective new residents with an ambassador so they could feel free to talk more openly and get a better feel of the place. We would NEVER have them sit with a CSL as we didn't want our new resident getting indigestion. Personally I have never met a CSL who wasn't a douchebag.
3)Friday afternoon socials were set up by the EC and a manager would be present and a manager would break it down. Weekend events were NOT staffed or hosted by the EC.
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It is better to have a prospect sit with the ambassador, this is usually someone who has a good grasp of the sell, but also may include what they don't like too. It is hard for managers and co's to conduct business with the person when you have to be jumping up and down all the time; we tried eating a long time ago with the residents at lunch just to mingle and they would wait till we got back to the table to eat, I finally decided it was just plain rude to do that anymore. Each case is different though and we have seated a person with us. The resident in some cases can show them their apartment also.
A person's warmth and bond to the prospective resident is what sells the deal in my opinion; I imagine a CSL can do this but I don't know if it is as effective unless you're selling a hotel room. Your going through a building on a tour and the love and warmth you show your residents can make a visual impact on them and their family that I don't know a CSL can do. Holiday may be independent but you know it really isn't, this is where you catch your sell.
Our EC went above and beyond sometimes because she loved her work. She would stage private dinners in the activity room for prospective residents. The budget for the EC is to be used for the residents benefit only and out of this budget is where the entertainers are paid, anything bought for crafts, birthday cakes, prizes for silent auctions, decorations for a candlelight dinner for the residents, etc. The budget is according to how many residents you have in your community, ours was about $650. There is a separate budget for events staged for prospective residents and it should be coming out of that, not the EC's. The budgets in the past used to be figured for the next year on what you spent and then in some cases raised a little higher ie if you didn't spend all of it that year, then the next year may stay the same with no increase. It used to be that October was the planning stage and turning in figures to the RD's for the next year, but I bet now they do it all in HO.
In our community the EC helped plan and put on events, she did a lot of the shopping for needed items. Managers had her required to come in if it were a weekend event, except for on a holiday. Managers and co's should be at any major event if they are on duty, even one for the residents and esp if it is a large event; it is a dis in front of your residents if you aren't there. You can leave after it starts if possible or an emergency comes up.
I think the mentality now is if it is a event everyone should be there, but in the past the managers had their days off and the co's had their's. This is why there is such a burnout with managers now having to work all the time. Bach then there were not as many events that required everyone to be there; the only major big events required were buffets for the holidays hosted the week before usually and perhaps a season related event; now you have to be the circus enterta
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fla48: I heard the salary for co's now is $500.00 per week per person plus bonus for each move in, don't know if that is still the case; this is a little over what we made of $948 net each bi-weekly. I didn't pull up glassdoor, I am low on my internet aircard, but I imagine it is around the $100k mark for all 4 people; in the past managers only made about $52.00 more per pay period than the co's. Not that much difference for all the headaches in my estimation.
The perk of earning less than a person somewhere else or your job skills and credentials is that you have an apartment and utilities, except for private phone, you can eat all meals there if you wish, or take leftovers home for your days off if there are any you like which helps you save money at the grocery store. These perks are not taxed and I think this is because of the fact that you have to be on call 24 hrs when you are on duty therefore it goes over the 16 hr mark. Each manager also has to meet the criteria of having someone under them that they are responsible for training, oversite, etc in order for managers and co's to be salaried. That is why the managers are over the co's; one co is over servers and housekeeping, one co is over maintenance and can be over the servers as an alternate situation. This only works if your managers are not control freaks and want the whole pie to themselves; that is why in the past things were broken down as to who may be better in that position and according to days off. Usually it is easier for managers to work payroll, but in one case we had a manager who had no clue how to get it done on time, this was in the old days when the old time clocks were still being punched. Everyone though could do the other persons job if need be (mentally this one wasn't), ie sick days, vacation, etc, not like now days where you are in the dark most of the time. We all tried to stay on the same page with the decisions made and also used a communication book as to what major crisis went on during days off. If a prospective resident was in the works, this was shared also.
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Fred: When you help your managers and make them look good as a way of life it also helps you. But there are some cases where managers are not suited to the business, egotistical, not caring, abusive to the residents and employees, keeping all the pies to themselves, change plans on a daily basis, make it where you are never sure as to what to do or not do.
With all the new managers and co's now though I cannot imagine how the building is even held together, guidelines in the past were pretty much followed and everyone knew them; now I think it is whatever. I have heard in one community the EC refused to get her CDL because she was not going to drive the bus period, the bus driver could do that. Inspections of the community were done on a pop visit and everyone was scared to death of being caught with their drawers down. I have even heard of someone in corporate making an unannounced visit undercover. There is a reasonable amount of dignity and decorum expected out of management; this is like a manager I heard sitting in the lobby in the morning with a robe and no slippers on drinking coffee; whether off or on duty it would not have been tolerated in the past, the residents don't even get to do that.
Just remember as a manager the #### starts on their heads and rolls down. With the mentality now it is hard to be head of a ship when all you have time to do is worry about that next phone call to make.
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I was an EC for nine years loved,loved loved my job. Then came the change in owners. The "Holiday Touch" was soon lost. The day I left was the saddest day and the best day of my life.
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Teresa Lawler: it is so true when you leave because it is hard to leave friends you make who are a lot more like family. I have someone close to where we were that keeps me up to date if she hears anything. A very dear resident just passed not long ago, the suffering for this person was pretty great at the end so I am happy they have passed on to a better place.
I still miss the place, but not all the baloney that went on and then trying to kill ourselves keeping up with the work and absent employees. It would just be nice if you could have kept servers working at night; it seems like it is a never ending revolving door which you don't realize until the W2's have to be mailed out.
You do realize you do not have to use your real name on here unless you really want to. We did have a few people who still worked at Holiday but remained un-named. Also HO keeps track of what goes on here also.
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I do not mind using my real name. I no longer work for the company and I don't care if HO keeps up with what is said.
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The last post I see is 9/23/12. Isn't anyone posting? What is going on with Holiday?
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Yes it is way too quiet lately.
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Sounds like more of the same just a new name for the game.
Once upon a time the co's were hourly workers also but they ended up with a whole lot of overtime being paid out, esp if they were having to work for a missing employee; then they went to the salaried to cut that out.
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That doesn't bode well for the co managers at all. It's already a nightmare and with being paid a salary, they can make them work even more hours and there's nothing short of quitting that they can do about it. Anyone who would take this job has got to be horribly desperate and that's just sad.
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The Community in Rancho Cucamonga CA can't keep any good Managers. They finally got some managers and they fired me. They tried to brush it under the rug and said I quit. When you call Corp and explain things they aren't on the employees side. We all need to stick together and get a class act going. We also, need to stick together so no other employees will lose their job and won't worry about supporting their families. The employees need a Union so the Managers can't do whatever they want. It's pretty much Husband and Wife against you. And Holiday Retirement doesn't drug test their Managers so would you want a drug addict taking care of your mom, dad, or grandparents? Lets stand up for what's right for the employees and residents. Who's in it?
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Ericka, go to the top of the page and perhaps contact the attorney linked there. The more spotlight that's on this company's practices, the better. Good luck.
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Thanks Jackson, I submitted this to that attorney above. I called my Teamster Rep and his is willing to get a Union for the US Communities but the employees are scared for some reason? Below is what I sent to the Attorney. Thanks again:
I was fired for no reason. I was with the company for over a year never had a write up. We got some new Managers and they didn't take a liking to me and fired me when the Co-Managers were on their day off. This company treats the employees unfair and declined my unemployment. I put a complaint on
http://blog.dlcharles.com/2012/03/01/beneath-the-veil-part-6.aspx#comment-17935186
And someone suggested to contact you to see if we can get some help. The company I worked for was Holiday Retirement a.k.a www.Holidaytouch.com
I just don't want anyone else to go through what i did. And now I'm stuck here fighting for my unemployment when I did nothing wrong unless you call showing up to work everyday wrong? Thank you.
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My wife and I have responded to an add for management team...sent our resume's...passed the 1 1/2 hour phone interview and now are scheduled for a flight and rental car to be interviewed 'face to face'..
Is this the same process that you have gone thru?
We are very confused at this point, as we do not want a 'pressure cooker' situation at this point in our lives.
Would appreciate feed back before we go next week. If we don't take the position...will be have to pay for the expenses of our interview? Help!
Thank you.
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Well...hopefully you've read the posts here. There aren't 500 people making this stuff up...it's all too real.
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Just say NOOOOOOOO
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My fiance and I also were flown to Denver, provided with accommodations and rental car. We had the face to face interview; came home did some assessments and background checks and got hired and scheduled for training. After we came home and did some real soul searching after reading this blog for hours and came to the conclusion that to many people are dissatisfied and they all can't be wrong. Because of this we wrote to company and cc'd 4 different people and decided NOT to take the job. After getting NO RESPONSE from not one person at Holiday; I knew we made the right decision.
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You most definitely made a GREAT decision to not take the job. I have never participated in a blog like this before about a former employer, but this company just did so many things so wrong on so many levels it just irritated the hell out of me. This company is disgusting and so unethical it just disgusts me. The way they treat their employees is horrific. And even the ways that they treat some of their residents is disgusting.
So I applaud you for having the guts to do what you did and to say 'thanks but no thanks'.
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Glad you did the researching on this company. The only sad thing about it is that the Residents and Employees are the ones that suffer. Holiday cuts so much from the people that love their job. I applaud you as well.
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I am so sorry for your experience - and the reported rudeness of not having any follow-up from Holiday. Believe me when I tell you that there are some wonderful moments in this industry of caring for seniors. You would think someone would have at least contacted you to ascertain why you declined. INDIFFERENCE - capitalized - such a wasteful shame.
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Run from Holiday Retirement. If you don't, you'll be in a pressure cooker and hate the day you said "yes".
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Thank you soo much...appreciate the feedback..
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xchelmsford...I asked a question on your 7/22 post Thanks
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I worked in MA the managers that I worked with have been gone to another building for about a year now I do not know who is there now
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Coming soon to HRC, The department of health regulations. HA HA HA!!
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Hey everyone!
Settling in and love this company. No one sending threatening emails about tour volume, census, and the general crap. We actually get to spend time with RESIDENTS AND DOING FUN STUFF. I was reading the comments since I last posted and have to agree - if your co-mgrs want your position they will screw you over. I was getting that picture which is one reason why we left. If you are a co, try to stick with that title. As to the doubling up of CSL's - heard about that as well. I agree with what was said - throwing money at the problem. What happens to those when census is reached - canned yep, unless they are ho'ing themselves out. Truly pathetically disgusting. I AM SO GLAD TO BE GONE. I really wish things had been different as we really liked things initially. But good times in Holiday don't last. To those of you looking to work there - BE SMART. If you don't have to take the jobs, then don't. If you do, keep looking until you get something else.
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Holiday Retirement has a facebook and they took off thier recommendations cause, I kept speaking my mind about the company. They tired to brush me under the rug but I refuse to let it happen.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/holidayretirement?fref=ts
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Ericka,
I'm pretty sure you know me, and I know you! We were from the same "area". This blog should know what's REALLY going on being under these clowns.
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Right! Clowns are exactly how they are. Especially melissa and keith williams at the Rancho Cucamonga community. Those managers came to our community and within the 2 weeks they had me fired. They tired to brush me under the rug. They declined my unemployment but, I'm not going to back down. melissa and keith know that I'm close to the residents and they try to keep me away so they can lie to them. Also, they don't drug test the Managers. Managers who take care of our Grandparents, our Moms, our Dads, our Friends, and our Family members. Not all Managers are bad but, for some reason the bad ones are the only ones who stay to threaten and harass the employees. melissa and keith hid my employee file to cover up what they did. They stuffed my file with fake write ups without my sig. melissa and keith don't even have custody of their own children. I wonder why? Especially melissa has 2 young daughters. Who wouldn't want to have custody or their daughters? Anyway, I'm done until next time lol.
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I hear ya Ericka!! Looks like they learned from their mistakes with me and got smarter in how to fire someone and not have to pay unemployment. HA! They had no choice but to pay mine, even EDD sent me a letter saying I was illegally terminated by those "clowns"!! When I needed my woo hoo all I heard were crickets! LOL! Everyone was scared I would sue after they fired me so sloppy. But, they are not worth my time. So happy to be out of there! I know what you mean about the kids.... Something is not right there. Lots of mystery IMO!
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That comment was from me btw! Forgot to put in my username
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I think the power trip got to their heads.
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2fab4u
Yeah a power trip cause, they can't control what's happening in their life. None of them have their kids. And Melissa looks like a crack head with her dead bleach blond hair and Keith pigeon toed walks around like he is all macho lol. I went to pick up my last check and Keith came outside when I was talking to a resident he was like you can't loiter around here. My husband told him to take himself back int he building lol. Think he stood up to my husband? Not!! But, when I was alone they would like to gang up on me. I'm glad they got rid of me cause, I don't have to walk on egg shells anymore. All I want is my unemployment so I'm just waiting for the appeal letter. And I have my witness so I'm pretty sure I will win? That company has gone down the drain. I was trying to get a Union for us U.S. employees but for some reason they don't want it? If the employees had a Union all this harassment wouldn't be happening. Oh well whenever they're ready I'm here to stand up for them.
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They won't because just like us when we were there.... "The Perras Scare" is worse!
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OMG - I was right.
If you want to correspond with me off this site, you can ask Mr. Charles for my personal address. I would love to chat with you if you'd like. We may know one another.
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Has anyone contacted that Lawyer above? He called and left me a message today but, i wasn't able to get back to him. I will call him in the morning.
Inflated AGAIN:
You may know me? If you want my email address I will give it to you or you can ask Mr. Charles for it. I really don't know how this works so maybe it will be better if you ask lol.
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I'm positive the three of us know each other pretty well!!! Inflated AGAIN and Ericka
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cuzphillips@facebook.com send me a message
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To 2fab4u and Ericka
I just returned 2fab a reply and as for Ericka - I don't believe that I do know you. What was your position within Holiday?
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It looks like the end is near for all floaters!They are cutting back on using them,in some cases they have been told they have no more work for them,in others they just don't get anymore calls.
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To JR:
Why would they need floaters when they have 3 sets of managers and too many CSL's to count?
What a crazy turn of events. Just when you think Holiday couldn't get ANY crazier.
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I think you are correct - Floaters are now getting calls. They are using teams that are salaried co's who live & help at a community and get sent to cover when there is a need. I heard that some floaters have a class action suit going because they are required to be on call at night but not paid for those hours. Plus the overtime and travel expenses - corp is probably saving a bundle of money AND eliminating a problem. The only up side I see is that the communities should run smoother with three sets there - if it is done right and fairly. I always said I would rather have three sets of management and get rid of the CSL. Talk about saving money! Lot's of questions tho if they are not going to use the Floaters any longer. Are they considered laid off? Can they file for unemployment benefits?
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Floaters are NOT getting calls - LOL
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I was the bus driver.
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To Ericka
Nope didn't know you but sounds like you got a raw deal. I can only say find something that fulfills you and the nightmare you experienced will be a thing of the past.
Like others have said, there is life after Holiday and it sure is sweet.
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To Inflated AGAIN
I got the short end of the stick when those new managers came in. But, I'm going to stand tall and fight for my unemployment. I'm just waiting for my appeal date. I believe I have a good case cause, I did nothing wrong. I have letters from previous managers and I have thank you notes from residents. I just want to get this over with. I'm happy they fired me cause, I don't have to walk on egg shells anymore. But, I do miss the residents. The main reason I went to work everyday was for them. I'm so happy we have this blog so we all can share our stories. Those new managers stuffed write ups in my employee folder without my signature. lol I tell you about some people. Oh well they did me a favor by trying to brush me under the rug. It will be my time to shine again
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Has anyone ever figured out how much money is being taken out for insurance and other benefits that they never get to use; the recipients must be making a fortune on people who are fired or quit before they are.
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Well I talked to the lawyer above. If you were a Manager or Co-Manager you should contact http://www.lawgarcia.com They can't help me cause, I wasn't management. Oh well. I always had to fight for my rights and I won't stop until I win my case.
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10/17/2012 3:39 PM Collective Action Lawsuit wrote:
A Collective Action Suit has been filed on behalf of all managers and co-managers against Harvest Management Sub LLC. This has been filed on my behalf, Sallie Cwik, and on the behalf of others similiarly situated who have worked during the time period from September 26, 2009 to September 26, 2012
This suit is in regards to the Fair Labor Standards Act and specifically with regards to overtime.
I cannot urge to you strongly enough to put your words into action. There is a great deal of anger and frustration voiced on this blog - now you DO have the opportunity to make things better. There is no cost to become involved, even if (when) we win. Please join me as we help to rectify some of the wrongs.
Signed - Glad to Be Gone (I have given DL permission to give you my email - just ask him to send it to you).
Call David Medby or Stephen Garcia
Phone: (562) 216-5270
Garcia, Artigliere & Schadrack
One World Trade Center
Suite 1950
Long Beach, CA 90831
Website: http://www.lawgarcia.com
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Way to go!!
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Be sure to join!!!
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I am willing to act as an intermediary and forward any requests to Sallie, just as I do for everyone. But it might be easier and faster for all involved if they either contact the attorneys or Sallie herself. Since she has disclosed her name with the civil action filing, and on here, I foresee no problem.
This is how things happen in the real world. Someone feels wronged in some way. That someone (or plural thereof) seeks redress. If none is forthcoming one of four things happen - either (1) the person sets it aside and forgets about it, or (2) complains and moans to anyone about how they were wronged, but do nothing else to offer up an option, or (3) seeks legal representation (criminal or civil). It takes a special courage to enter into a civil action, especially for the average individual feeling alone and unsupported. The road to completion can be long and frustrating, with no guarantee of success for either side. I must applaud this action by Sallie and her spouse, and all the others involved both now and joining later. This is how it gets done in our society.
Oh, and number 4 - people band together in a concerted effort to bring about an awareness of problems and solutions to correct them, like the caring individuals on this blog are doing.
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Is this something other salary positions can join as well? We too worked lots of unpaid overtime....
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Since we were co-manager and managers this suit is restricted to them. However David and Stephen are aware of the OT requiremenets for other salaried employees, especially for the CSL's who were frequently required to work more than 40 hours and had NO managerial duties. I strongly encourage you to give him a call. Floaters - you too.
You say you want to make them change - let's band together and get it done!
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I want you all to remember one thing:
we may know each other or we may not but the Holiday employees are a “family” and we must make sure each and every one of us stand behind one an other no matter what.
It is critical for all of you to know this. You are not alone. Your voices must be heard and if it is the only way to bring this to the courts, than so be it.
Too many of you have been hurt in the past and it must come to an end. Fortress must realize that they are dealing with human beings. It has been going on far too long.
Yes, they are in business to make money as is every business but there is a way for doing it right. Fortress has yet to figure out how to do it right.
It is not only about the residents. If you have happy employees, you will have happy residents. It is not about more money, it is about a fair pay for an honest day of work.
Fortress paid 6.8 Billion dollars for Holiday Retirement Corp. and I am sure they would like to see some return on their investment as well.
The biggest mistake they made is to install the current leadership at Holiday.
It starts at the top and trickles down.
If you feel you were not adequately compensated during your tenure with Holiday, please contact the attorney or DL Charles and get your names in this suit.
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Thank you Achmed - well said. This is not about making money, it is about forcing change - and this is the only way to get their attention.
Sallie
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We are in!!!
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AWESOME!! NIce aren't they?
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Yes they are, Very help full.
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Agreed - very well put, Achmed!
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Well said Achmed.
We need to stand together so other employee's, Managers, and Co-Managers don't ever have to go through what we went through. Holiday doesn't understand that the residents get attached to us and when they get rid of us it's makes the residents sad. And the high turn over of managers isn't healthy for the residents or employees either. Holiday is all about cutting hours and robbing the employees/managers/residents for their time and money.
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Working as a Manager for Holiday Retirement feels like being in an ABUSIVE relationship!!
You know you should leave but you can't.
As a Manager you are physically & mentally abused DAILY!!!
Both are just as devastating!
How do you walk away & begin living again?
Does anybody else out there feel the same?
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It took us 6 months to finally decide 'enough is enough' trust me there is life after Holiday. We were with them for 5 years........... leaving the residents is the hardest part of leaving, but ultimately you have to look out for what is best for you. We are still working with seniors and for a company that cares, they are out there.........the only thing we had to give up was insurance for 6 months and that was worth it!
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Join the collective action suit. Make them stop! Thay is why we are doing this - to stop this abuse.
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I joined the collective suit today and already feel better!
Everyone stand up for yourself!
past or present we are all family!
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Contacted the law firm a week ago via a phone call, left a message with the receptionist.
They have not returned our call, very disappointing.........
Is it better to contact them via website?
We are feeling like we are stuck in Hell & its getting worse!!!!!!
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Contact David Medby the number is 562-216-5270.
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Escape - can you send me your contact info. salcwik@gmail.com, I will make sure you get a call back.
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I would contact you, but not knowing who you can trust has me feeling paranoid to send anyone any personal information. Please don't be offended.
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Escape just call the David Medby and he will call you back. Call him now and leave him a message. Tell him you are calling about the Holiday Retirement suit. (562) 216-5270
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Escape: You can trust Glad To Be Gone --I do!
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DL knows about everyone on this blog. You can trust him!!
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You can trust Glad to be gone. We worked in the same Reg. We worked for a good RD. and a Horible RD.
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Here is David's email. I checked with him yesterday and he will be expecting to hear from you.
dmedby@lawgarcia.com
Sallie
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I emailed David & told him that you referred me.
Thanks Sallie
Lets all hope & pray that by joining forces that our voices will be heard.
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DL,
Please add me to the list. Thank You
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Dear Friends - I thought you would all appreciate this both because of the people we work with and so many of us too..
A single glass at night could mean a peaceful, uninterrupted nights sleep. NEW Wine for Seniors....
California vintners in the Napa Valley area, which primarily produce Pinot Blanc, Pinot Noir, and Pinot
Grigio wines, have developed a new hybrid grape that acts as an anti-diuretic.
It is expected to reduce the number of trips older people have to make
to the bathroom during the night.
The new wine will be marketed as
PINO MORE
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On the Holidaytouch website, Jeff Adler who was brought on board earlier this year to serve as the chief operations officer is no longer on listed on there. Guess he is spending more time with family too....He kinda looked like he didn't fit in with that group thats on there now. Wonder who they will dangle a carrot in front of next? I wouldn't do it. Don't know anyone else who would either...
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Roger Aufieri was promoted to COO. Adler came across with an eye toward improving the situation for associates. Didn't last long.
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I worked as an EC/Coach for many years. The dishonesty that is going on in the West Texas, AZ and NM region is heartbreaking. If I can help in anyway with the law suit please let me know. CSL in this region is sleeping with the RD. He moved her from Texas to AZ not long ago. I have a wonderful job now that I love and love working with Honest, respectful, involved in the community, work as a TEAM and encouraging group of people. It's a small company with a great big heart and happy employees.
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EC job has become sales/marketing event coordinator. Very stressful and not enough hours in the day to do it all...the comments in this blog nail my feelings exactly. Toxic, dysfunctional, torn, sad, defeated, anxious, love the residents, try my very best, can't sleep, baffled, wouldn't believe most of it if I weren't living it myself...looking forward to being healthy again someday.
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Tish: I think I know you through another EC friend whose name starts with an "M", she also is no longer with FIG, age discrimation and other comments got her her unemployment approved.
It's good to hear that you have another job that you are really enjoying and hope you gain some sanity after all the years of abuse. I know our buddy is having a great time being off.
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for some reason this posted me as an another anonymous.
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We joined the lawsuit also.
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How do you join the law suit, please advise
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Call David Medby or Stephen Garcia
Phone: (562) 216-5270
Garcia, Artigliere & Schadrack
One World Trade Center
Suite 1950
Long Beach, CA 90831
Website: http://www.lawgarcia.com
Please feel free to ask DL for my email - he will forward along to me.
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Congratulations!!!!!!!
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Yay!! Wish the non-management employee's would be able to join the lawsuit as well. We were equally harassed. But, I'm happy you all are standing up for what's right.
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christina: go to www.lawgarcia.com and fill out the "contact us" section. They will call you very soon and get you started.
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WOW....I had no idea this amount of garbage could spread from coast to coast to coast to coast!!! I am an X manager of one of the 300 + communities that they call holiday. Bad thing about it, there is no Holiday at holiday any more. We are of the old era, Colson's Holiday Retiremet; where the "Holiday Touch" was sincere. Today, with fig, the only touch is the pick-pockets, stealing from our Greatest Generation. They are not only stealing their money, it goes deeper than that. We were with Holiday for 2 + years and with... holiday fig for 5 + years. In total a little over 7 1/4 years of service to our seniors...no, we did not leave and return in the 7+ years, but when Holiday was sold to the a..holes, Holiday no longer was the same. It was gradual for the first year...then the cancer (fig) spread faster and futher across all communities. One thing about it, there is no cure for the cancer that exsist within the walls of holiday under the umbrella of fig....only DEATH!!!!!! When we took the job with Holiday it was our plan to never look for another job, this was it. We started in an average size community, not a very old building and high in census. We fell in love with the 100+ residents. Learned how to play "42" and played 3-5 times a week (we were co-managers). It didn't take long, and we found out we had managers from "HELL"(maybe they were already working for fig)lol No matter, we had our "Family" to take care of and we hung in there...yes, we quit about 3 times over the next year..but we both did not quit at the same time.lol Over the course of the next few years we went to Oregon 3 or 4 times, and each time we were treated like royalty. We met many caring and loving people each time...we sharred stories and knew we were doing what we were suppose to do in our lives. When we would return "HOME" to our "FAMILIES", WOW...what love and appreciation was waiting on us. And it wasn't that we were doing anything special or different than most of the other managers of Holiday were doing..loving and being there for them. Then, along came the devil (fig) and they started seperating us from our Family, broke our hearts. We continued loving and being there for them, but it was getting tougher...the snakes were getting more and more. Most jobs I have worked at would at least let me do my job..but now you have these snakes that don't know up from down and they want to tell you how to do what you already know how to do..but not doing it like they want you to. We were very succesful while managing a property, brought the census from the low 80's to 100% and maintained that...then the snakes come in and price you out of the market using the "HOTEL" mentallaty. One thing we did, the shop comparison, what a waste of time...it aparently was file "13", the high prices continued. We did get census back up and maintained the high 90's. It finaly came to leave or die...the stress was taking a toll on my health, more meds ordered. Now 1 pill a day
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Wow...well said.
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Join the lawsuit - it will make you feel much better!
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Where can I get the most information about the lawsuit? I have read bits and pieces about the suit, but do not really know the just of it. I am fairly new to the blog. I see a lot of unhappy employees as well as ex-employees on here. There is a lot of crap going on at the community I came from, anything from sexual harassment, slush funds and threating residents. I have not gotten involved, even though residents as well as employees call me on a regular basis. I have told them to contact resident relations and employee relations but I don't think company will do what is right anyway. When we left the company there was a huge burden lifted off us but I feel so bad for residents and employees. Will all this ever come to a head?
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Dear Ghost,
The lawsuit is based on the FLSA, and most specifically that due to the structure of the company we were not actually exempt employees. It will get us the overtime that we were all entitled to from the beginning. It force change in how they treat employees. Here is an intereseting story: Our former EC in Hermitage baked cookies and cakes, at her home - with her children, for Christmas gifts for our residents. The diabolic duo who were the managers when we arrived there, ran her off, they did not fire her they just made her life a living hell and she left. She went to the labor board and was awarded - are you ready????? $3600.00 in overtime!!! They determined that creating gifts was part of her job description, and that she had done this work off of the clock. That the baking should have been done in the community kitchen with suppliess purchased by the community, her shopping time was also part of the compensation. There are ways that we can take back what was stolen from us.
Call the attorney - or email - and get on board.
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I just left a message on the attorney's web page requesting to be contacted to be a part of the law suit....good luck to all and to hell with fig/holiday
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Well I had my Unemployment Appeal on 10/25/2011. I found out yesterday I didn't win my case. Holiday is fighting to pay me due to their Managers sending me home on 08/24/2012. Sending my 2nd appeal tomorrow with my documents since the judge didn't want to see them the first time. This company is a fraud. Glad I was let go, but now I have to fight for what's right. Glad to know all the Managers are standing up and fighting for what's right.
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@DL...so very happy to see this is still going strong!! Haven't had time to check like I would like to. My current patient keeps me very busy!!!! Hope the lawsuit works for everyone. Makes me kind of wish I was an employee. At least, I would stand a chance of redemption! Keep going Everyone!!
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There is a lovely video on youtube by HR with a lovely manager couple saying how lovely it is to work for HR!
I may re-up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WL3TzfCq2s
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I didn't see any wadders??? Boy was that deep. They could not be working for the same company I worked for...if they are even managers or co-managers. Of course, you can stage anything. This just adds to the rest of the pile of poop that holiday realy is. You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool all the people all the time. Check out glassdoor.com, you do not get the same picture from actual employess of holiday, either present or ex-employees.
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Hahahahaha "Austinrat" wrote: "Oh Dear God!! All Lies!!"
Wonder how long it takes before they disable comments on the video? No quarter untouched...they are trying so hard to find a place on the internet where there won't be some damaging reviews or comments. How about taking some of that energy and actually taking to heart what the employee and resident experience is and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
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I wanted to throw up after watching that video. What a load of crap!!!
Yes, These are current managers----
What ASS kissers!!!
GOOGLE A WEB SITE CALLED RIPOFF REPORT AND SEARCH HOLIDAY RETIREMENT
The public is beginning to catch on!!!
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GROSS!! What a funny couple to try to sell the Holiday Management lifestyle. Their building is run like they are rank amateurs, not much by company standards, they can't keep Co's because they run a dictatorship. He sits at his desk and proclaims "I am the CEO of this community." The residents don't trust them and truly dislike them. Keep it up Holiday, you do amaze me. About the time I thought you couldn't dig your hole much deeper, you produce this. Or is it you are just to engrossed in your own fantasy world you can't see the real people running your communities?
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Good Grief I can't believe I sat thru the whole thing. Re-up or throw up? When I see what these drones are programmed to say I have no doubt they will succeed. Until they don't. There will come a time when they get stabbed in the back by their RD, a co-manager. Or finally realize that the "culture" is sucking the life out of them one day at a time.
I am so happy to be where I am. Back to the grass roots of the family that started it all. RD's actually have to work in the communities - even do the dishwasher's job! My old RD, that lying, cheating, "ass" - his own words to me about himself, wouldn't last an hour doing dishes. I hope he finally gets caught for the nasty underhanded shizz he gets away with. Allegedly sleeping around with Chef's, CSL's and hiring his family members to spy on employees in communities. He is a real piece of work.
And to those that feel better about joining that lawsuit? It's true - you do feel better!!!
SO HAPPY TO BE GONE.
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Well it looks like "they" have thrown all of the Floaters under the bus! They cost too much money for the good ole NOI. Word is that "they" are doing a better job with retention and do not need them as much. "They" are just using an extra set of salaried co's in each area to provide the coverage. So what there is just now the big realization that the job cannot be done in 40 hours per week??? Especially when on the co schedule. Please - any other info out there??? Linny Lewis
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By looking on glassdoor.com, holiday is advertising for a ton of co-managers and there were quite a few that were just listed, like hours ago. It says they have openings all across the country. There is a set in Tx that I know are working and they are hourly. Have you checked into the law suit about the overtime pay?
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Linny, where are you getting your info?
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What kind of stupid question is that?
Why does it matter where Linny is getting his information?
The POINT is that Holiday has thrown all Floaters under the bus! Without warning, Hourly Floaters are not being used unless it is the last resort. Regions are now using SALARY FLOATERS (Previous Managers or Cos that have stepped down) Most RD'S keep extra CO's so that they can fill the never ending TURNOVER!
HOLIDAY IS SO CONCERNED ABOUT RESIDENT Retention
HEY HERE'S A CLUE
MANAGEMENT RETENTION = RESIDENT RETENTION!!!!!!!!
DUHHH AND TO THINK THAT THEY PAY GUYS LIKE JACK CALLISON TRIPLE DIGITS.
Our main competition uses this very thing as a selling tool......'THEY CAN'T KEEP MANAGERS MORE THAN 2 OR 3 MONTHS!! WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE THERE? WHAT'S UP WITH THAT COMPANY?'
OUR POOR RESIDENTS ARE PAYING THEIR LIFE SAVINGS TO PAY THE SALARY OF IDIOTS LIKE CALLISON------if our residents only knew!!!!!!
HOW DOES Callison SLEEP AT NIGHT?
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I wonder how a lot of them sleep at night. Thanks for the insight. Do you know OKFORNOW? Could be a Holiday spy - lol
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No it was Linny Lewis (aka) tired of hiding.
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Anonymous - No, I'm not a Holiday spy. Been with the company almost 3 years at the community manager level. I have had several fairly candid comversations with some of the upper level managers at different meetings - but that's about as much as I'll say. We are still active and are "ok for now". Decent RD makes it bearable. I have been in other similar corporate situations at the executive level so tis is not unfamiliar to me nor is it unusual in this environs. It should get better over time but between now and then - not much fun.
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Escape, take a pill. Before you start accusing people of asking stupid questions, get educated. The first two things any researcher, author, reporter, attorney, et al want to know when information comes in is, (1) Where did it come from; and (2) Is that a credible source? The POINT is everyone on this blog knows Holiday has, or will, throw anyone and everyone under the bus at some point in time. That's how this whole blog got started.
Now to answer your intelligent questions. Callison sleeps very well at night. He is charged by a major multi-billion dollar corporation to produce results for his investors. At the trench level that translates to moveins - by whatever methods he determines necessary to get them. They know they put us under extreme pressure, and they know they will have high turnover until they reach the levels they have projected. It's factored into the overall strategy. That’s why the HR machine is running at full power.
Once they reach their internal goals they can then address turnover and other operational issues. Right now it is all about bottom line - period. And, folks, until they hit their goals, nothing is going to change. It's unfortunate and it's sad but that's corporate business. I read this blog for valid information. Venting is good for the soul. I appreciate that. But I don't suffer people well who simply rant. Re-stating the obvious bores me. Rumors still run rampant. Hard (new) facts with credible sources are what really matter.
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Has anyone heard of any Floaters filing for unemployement compensation because they now have no work? Any success in getting the benefit? This bog has been to silent of late.
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Most people in the law suit are probably not able to comment too much. I haven't heard too much since they fired the activities director...I talk to a few of the residents, but most of the people that worked there quit or were fired by the managers!!
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I was fired by Managers and I'm still fighting for my unemployment. On my second appeal.
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I have some questions running through my head, and I'm not certain how to phrase them. Reading the comments about the Veteran's A&A benefits and the "problems" associated I find myself rather lost.
As I understand it from the various comments it seems that some type of paperwork or representation is required. If anyone out there can explain it I would appreciate such.
Scenario as I gather it: An elderly veteran (or family member) approaches a retirement community seeking entrance with the hoped for additional money under the A&A. Some type of application is then filled out by someone either in community management or outside "lead-in company" and this application takes months to be approved. In the interim the veteran is allowed to move in while waiting for said approval and monies. If approved everything is kosher. If not approved the veteran becomes liable for all the owed money.
Does this happen at the community level or does it require someone higher up the ladder to approve - and how high up does it have to go? Who actually handles all the applications for all the communities? Somewhere, at some point, there has to be a person or department charged with being in control of all this paperwork and money. Who signs off on it? How does it get packaged corporate wise and does the money go to the community or home offices?
If anyone can fill me in I would be grateful. My curosity bone is itching like crazy and will until I understand it. I would love to converse with anyone who can elaborate. I just can't imagine that someone in a community can do all of this with sole authority. I can see where an individual can feel a lot of pride in helping someone with the A&A. What creates a problem about someone getting the benefits or not getting them?
Thanks, dlcharles
thefreebornman@yahoo.com
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Is this based on a new plan of action for the A&A, or are you asking about the way it was a year or so ago.
Let me know. The old way had a form that discounted the rent for whatever amount, $1000.00 or so usually. Don't know about what they are doing now, or if they can even still claim the rent as an allowance. Back in 2005? or 2006, the only amount that could be claimed was any health services provided by an outside source, none of the rent of the community counted and that included not being able to count anything off for meals, etc.
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I have something set wrong on here when I post, it keeps logging me in as Anonymous instead of Nightmareworld. I must have the cookies figured wrong or something. So the above post is from me.
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It happened to me too - you have to put in your user name and email before you submit.
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Linny: thanks, I just put in the email addy I think.
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DL, Here’s the Cliff’s Notes version:
Veteran makes application to VA for A&A
He can try to navigate the VA system himself or seek outside help – with one caveat. The vet can’t pay someone to assist with the application, or rather no one can charge a fee to assist in the completion of the app.
The application package is quite lengthy and complicated. Typically it is handled by (a.) an attorney – who makes his money via legal fees for setting up the trust, etc. or (b.) a Certified Financial Planner who specializes in the program,. This planner will then (hopefully) make his money by managing the money that’s put into an irrevocable trust. If there is no money for the trust he has to do it pro bono.
A host of the veteran’s personal, medical, and military records must be submitted: Income, assets, Physicians statement, DD-214, proof of wartime service, etc. Once VA stamps it submitted that’s the retroactive pay date.
It can take months to go through the system but, once approved, VA issues a check retroactive to the filing date and then monthly thereafter. The check(s) is made out and sent direct to the vet.
As you may imagine the program, from Holiday’s procedural standpoint , has gone through several iterations. Basically there is now a special department that coordinates things from corporate. When the program first started, if a vet needed the A&A to be able to afford Holiday, the Manager would get a pre-approval from a Veteran Service Provider. Based on that approval they would then defer a certain amount of the rent until the vet got his first check. At which time he was supposed to reimburse the previous deferment. Who had authority to approve the deferments varied as the program developed. To my knowledge that program is all but defunct. There were widespread claims of fraud, bogus move-ins, investigations by the VA, etc. – many from this blog. I say claims because I have no personal proof.
Hopefully this answers at least some of your questions. If you have more, I’ll try to help out.
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Forgot to add: What constituted a problem was if the vet didn't qualify after living at Holiday for 3-6-18 months or more. Many were kicked out, some had the money written off and other arrangements made to stay – you name it.
It is an excellent program. It was an immense help to my Dad.
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Hi DL,
The files are SUPPOSED to be done by VSP's (veterans service providers) or VSO's (veterans service officers) ONLY.
There are actually few/no financial advisors who are certified VSP's/ VSO's. Putting money in irrevocable trusts, is exactly like hiding money, and those who have done so are liable to repay 100% plus fines.
We worked closely with the VA in Erie, the main contact's name escapes me, but I will get it tomorrow. When we arrived at WO and NV, both were working with a financial advisor, Brian ?? (damn getting old!), I was very suspicious right from the get go and we stopped working with him at WO. When we arrived at NV he was firmly entrenched, I contacted the Va andd was told that they would not work with us if we continued working with Brian. I then met with the VA and started a good program. However we ran into trouble when they did a presntation for us at NV, there was a mole from another facility who complained. Even though the entire event was taped and he NEVER told any of the attendees that NV was a preferred providoe he was reprimanded by hus superiors and not allowed to give another prsentation, We were working on a multi community presentaion when I left.
The VSO with whom we were working told me that the VA was launching an investigation into Financial Advisors who are helping veterans fill out these forms. We had a HUGE problem with Brian following through with teh people he was "helping", if they did not have any money their aps never got filed. When we got to NV there were four residents who had been there a year and were on the verge of getting thrown out because he never filed their paperwork, since they had no money to hide.
If your Vets are not working with VSP's or VSO's there are legal ramifications for everyone involved.
Holiday was/is moving in residents based on the "approval" of these psuedo professionals, frequently giving a rent deduction equal to 100% of rent. The MI's signed paperwork stating that they would be liable for paying everything back if they were denied or if their bene's did not arrive in six months. The average wait was 8 months, and the if their was any error in their filing there could be a delay of over a year. Of course that meant that the resident - who had NO money was supposed to come up with 10 to 18 thousand dollars or be evicted. This happened at WO.
DL - I found most of my mailers for A&A events.
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The company that was doing the irrevocable trusts here in northern Nevada waas making itself the recipient of the trust. Bad business!
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hourly employee here. i hope most of you former managers and co's might be able to help me.
our current 4 person management team is not good at all. the top two are lazy but assert their authority all the time , just so we know who's boss. the co's are incompetent at their job. to the point where it effects us in the food department.
they get in the way, they ask where things are (even though they've been here months and our kitchen layout hasn't changed much since I've started with holiday, 7 years ago) they have no clue on time lines, they walk in and expect us to drop everything we are doing so they don't have to lift a finger. etc
it's getting to the point where i am physically shaking every time i talk to them or they do anything in the kitchen. for the 8 hours i am at work i am thinking about when i will be off, and how i can quit and any way i can bring it to the boss's attention.
i have a few questions. what time did you bring room tray orders into the kitchen, what time were they to be sent out, and how many a meal on average did you have? where i am there was 1-3 orders, the managers brought them in when they got the phone calls, or at least by 5 o clock, so we can send them out by 515 and it wont disrupt service in the dining room (managers are supposed to take them to check on the residents, but that hasn't happened for years and ism ok with that)
whenever the co's work we get 6-10 orders, all coming in at 525, some late. so the dishwasher cant bus the dining room or keep up. leaving the servers to have to bus the soup bowls after the serve, getting them behind, etc, etc
i have mentioned this to the sous chef, chef, and both managers. i even asked the co managers if they can bring them earlier to help us out. the co's said its not gonna happen because they're so busy, the rest just said they'd look into it and northing happened.
my second question is what do i do next? do i go to the regional manager? regional chef? is there a employee complain form? or number? no one will help me, no one wants to work with anyone. I don't know how much more i can take of working in an environment where no one does their job and i get in trouble for it, where when i have concerns they're brushed off, where there is no communication. I am physically and emotionally sick by the time i leave each day
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First, let me say how sorry I am that you have been put into this kind of situation. There is an employee relations department at home office and the number is 1-888-370-7079 option 1. That is where I would start, because of hearing what you had to say about the mnagement team. You said 4 person not 5, the executive chef is suppose to be a part of the community management team. If you have a good leader in the kitchen, your chef, get with him and get the food service guidelines and read through them. It gives you guidelines for to go meals and who is responsiable for doing what. Depending on who your regional chef is and how long he has been with the company may be another avenue for you. Sounds like your situation is getting the best of you, please do something before it affects your health too bad. It is a bad and sad situation, it is not what "Holiday" use to be like. Yes, the work has always been hard and plenty to go around, but there were rewards in serving our "Seniors" and being a part of what "The Touch" was all about. Sadly, it does not exsist within the walls of what is called holiday today. I do know how you feel, even though I was a manager for almost 7 years, and put my heart and soul into what we did and what "Holiday" stood for. Hope this will help you with your problems and I wish I could tell you that it will get better, but I can't because I do not see any good changes coming to holiday as long as fig and the snakes they have hired to run the company and communities exsist. Sorry! Please do not let this ruin your health....there is life after holiday.
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i have a copy of the guidelines. it says they should be sent out 15 minutes prior to service by the management, unless they are unavailable, in which the kitchen helpers will take them at the same time.
with the managers, i am aware the chef is also a slaried management position, but the other 4 have done their best to take all his authority away and if he does anything with out telling them first, they freak out so he has given up
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Anon
I complained to corp about the management and they did nothing. Corp is on the management's side. And after me complaining I was fired that next week. They will fire you and say that you quit so you won't be able to get unemployment. I would look for another job and just get out of there. There is life after Holiday. Good luck.
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I didn't figure it would really do any good either, just hopeing maybe one day someone may wake up. It is very sad to read how good people, people that care are treated like dirt. Good luck to all. There will come a day when these snakes get what is due to them.....
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I had kinda figured that about the chef, what about the regional chef, is he any support while at the community? I really don't think there will be any changes even if all 4 of the so called managers you have now leave and new ones come in. holiday is not hireing managers any more, they hire people to sell, that is all it is about. You may still call employee relations and try that life line.....but good luck even going that route. We left the holiday after some 7 years for the same reasons, nobody listens, nobody cares and nobody wants to make waves...in fear of losing their jobs. There are a couple of other vocal sites online that you can let the public know how things are in your community....glassdoor.com has a place you can let others know about the working conditions, so maybe someone else will not fall into the snake pit as well as www.truthisbinary.com where you can tell your story. I wish there was more help I could offer. Take care!
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the regional doesnt care either. as long as the paper is done and the kitchen is clean, there is no intervention.
thanks again for the relations number and the websites. it's good to know there are people out there who understand. i am currently in looks for a new job, here's crossing my fingers to something soon before i just walk out and am jobless
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anon: I too am sorry about how bad things have gotten for you. In our community a year ago it was still call the the order in asap to the kitchen and not at the last minute. There have been times when for some reason or another or just one of us purely forgot to let the kitchen know that a meal was needed, then I would fix it if I had to.
At this time the meals were delivered by the dishwasher before the meal service started. The empty trays were to be picked up by one of the servers (forgot if it was A, B, or C) while the other 2 served dessert. Things sound like they have changed again since it was never the managers who delivered the meals unless someone was missing and they were filling in for them.
The company has fallen apart so much and no one knows what to do or cares to do what they are supposed to. Like you say they want to make sure everyone knows who is boss, it is a ego trip for them, not a vocation or mission. We always preferred to take a backseat to whomever was boss, but there are days you want to know who or what put these type of people in charge; our last set of managers thought it was their personal fiefdom I think, dreaming up new paperwork, not knowing anything about how the building was run. FIG is reaping what they have sowed.
I hope you can find something else soon, it looks like if you have been there fro awhile that will be a benefit to you in the future. Until then do the best you can do, I they say it sounds like employee relations is just lip service.
It makes me want to cry over how bad it is now and how the residents are mistreated and the employees who are good and trying to make a living and do what is right.
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The Problem stated above is a mojor problem I had in my community--only my problem was both sets of managers dropping off orders whenever they felt like it, sometimes after service started, and they expect you to drop everything and go fix it. Theres nothing in the guidelines that can fix piss poor managers, and asking the chef of regional to get involved will only cause more chaos--my advice,do whatever you can do ahead of time to prepare for it, have an extra tray or 2 ready at all meal periods, have a few bowls of soup ready. Start soup service 5 minutes early. This is one of holidays MAJOR problems is the fact that the managers are supposed to be heavily involved with meals and they just arent amymore. Take count of room numbers who chronically call their order in late and just have something ready ahead, shoot --go ahead and throw it in with the people who called on time and swing by their room just in case. I dealt with the same problem daily, there is no cure for shitty managers, they will just find a reason to fire you if you don't do as they wan when they want how they want, been there done it got the t-shirt.
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The executive chef and managers should have firm timelines in place. Meal orders should be in by residents one hour prior and given to the kitchen by 5:00PM Some come to the office and pick up at 4:30 - if later orders come in manager on duty delivers them.
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Theres lots of ways that communities SHOULD run the meal delivery program with success that SHOULDNT interfere with the kitchen helpers and meal services, the timelines are a guide not mandatory rules, the problem that anon has is the same problem that I had community managers and cos iwht NO ACCOUNTABILITY, basically doing everything they are NOT supposed to do with meal orders and dropping the oders off when they feel like it. And if service runs longer that's ok because the its not like they are going to be the ones helping out make service run faster, help bus or help clean up. they plop their butts down at the table, eat, then go back to the office to make more calls, I know that they are pressured for sales calls but they are not involved with the meal service, they just pour coffee once maybe twice and thats it, they dissapear like phantoms, in my case usually to their apartments until there is an ecall or someone needs to punch out and the office door is locked. All that corporate can see on paper is the high overage of payroll on the variance, but thats a FOODSERVICE DEPT problem, not a concern of managers, move ins a a concern of managers, THATS THE PROBLEM - its all over the country and no one will or wants to address it.
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To: Seen Enough
You are so right - managers are glued to the phone. We were to make 40 to 60 calls EVERYDAY. There was no time to visit residents or take care of the building. Calls,calls and more calls. I am so blown away by the company we now work for - 40 calls A WEEK is good here. Managers are expected to have at least 2 activities with the residents every week. Resident satisfaction is JOB ONE. There is NO HOLIDAY TOUCH. What a bunch of hypocrites. The website about caring on-site managers is a bunch of crap. The only time anyone cares about seniors is when they are DI's and once they are in the door, then forget about them. You better hope you have a good staff in place because they run the building, not the managers. On another note - I heard that my former RD got promoted. How nice. Run scams (allow managers to fabricate move ins), whore yourself out, lie, manipulate, and get rewarded. SICK.
I hope KARMA bitch slaps the scuzzballs running Holiday Retirement.
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Hello..wondering if anyone knew what Hawthorne Retirement pays their Resident Managers. Sure hope they are not as "cheap" as Holiday is ....??
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If that is the most important item you are wondering about than I am so terribly sorry but no matter what they or anyone would pay you, you are not qualified to work in such an environment. You don't have the PASSION if a salary is the number one item on your "wish" list.
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Come on, Achmed, lighten up on the pre-judging. There a lot of people out there with the passion who may have encountered financial difficulties during the last few years (of a sick economy) that may not be able to immediately survive on $30 - $40k per year.
It's natural to want to know what the salary will be - or did you actually take the job without ever knowing what the compensation was?
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Where did this person say it was the "most important" item he/she was wondering about. For all you know, he/she has already considered 10 or 12 MORE important things about a career with Hawthorn.
Achmed, your passion for seniors (and the *real* Holiday Touch of the old days) shows through in all of your comments on this blog over the years. However, you consistently jump to unwarranted conclusions about others' comments and in some cases about Holiday. If you thought a bit more carefully before making assumptions, your comments would be more persuasive.
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Achmed,
Really? Are your serious? Or perhaps a millionair who doesn't care about fair compensation for a job well done? Or maybe a "Highly Praised" spy from Holiday?
Anyone who does not want fair compensation and does not think that it is important lives in a very different world from the majority of us. I have taken pay cuts to get into a good career path, but to say it is not important to be well paid, especially when you are required to be on call, to be a first responder, to care for the lives of seniors every day, to be friend and famuliy, to manage a large business, to be on the phone ALWAYS, to be in charge of sales, maintenance, housekeping and food service - to shovel snow and water flowers, to deal - with compassion - with families after the death of a loved one, to plunge toilets and clean feces off of floors -AND MAINTAIN OCCUPANCY AT ALL COSTS , INCLUDING YOUR INTEGRITY,not sure where that thought process comes from - but certainly from someone who really knows what it is to run a community.
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This time without typos...
Achmed,
Really? Are you serious? Or perhaps a millionaire who doesn't care about fair compensation for a job well done? Or maybe a "Highly Praised" spy from Holiday?
Anyone who does not want fair compensation and does not think that it is important lives in a very different world from the majority of us. I have taken pay cuts to get into a good career path, but to say it is not important to be well paid, especially when you are required to be on call, to be a first responder, to care for the lives of seniors every day, to be friend and famuliy, to manage a large business, to be on the phone ALWAYS, to be in charge of sales, maintenance, housekeping and food service - to shovel snow and water flowers, to deal - with compassion - with families after the death of a loved one, to plunge toilets and clean feces off of floors -AND MAINTAIN OCCUPANCY AT ALL COSTS , INCLUDING YOUR INTEGRITY. Not sure where your thought process comes from - but certainly NOT from someone who really knows what it is to run a community.
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You know what, You are absolutely corect. I was way out of line and I apologise.
Sorry.
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PEOPLE - Holiday does not really hire community managers and co managers - they hire marketers, It does not matter that most communities have a "Community Sales Leader" - that is why things are falling apart. MANAGERS are supposed to manage - NOT be all about sales. This company does not care about the residents - SALES SALES SALES - that it is all they care about. Resident, staff be damned! Once you sign and move in - it is no longer about you!
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A very pleasant and happy Thanksgiving to each of you. May your day be filled with things you love. I'll be thinking of you while working the sales line at Wal-Mart.
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have some great news! We left Holiday
over a year ago.
After my husband took some courses and went to some meetings he is now employed!!!
This is not just any job, its a great job! he makes in one week what the two of us made in a month with Holiday.
I'm not trying to brag, I'm trying to tell all of you that Holiday is NOT the only way to make a living. If you are stressed by your job, do yourself and your health a BIG favor and find something else. am a true believer that when one door closes another one opens!!
Have faith. Don't end up in the hospital like I did!
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Hooray to you Survivor! And you are absolutely right...there is life after Holiday and it's a much, much, much better life!!!!
We left when we saw the handwriting on the wall. The residents did not matter any more...or at least that's what we were told. The only thing that did matter was who was coming in next and to make sure there were more and more names on that coming in list. This was not what we signed up for! Sure, marketing was important and we were willing to work hard at it and we DID work hard at it. But there was so much more, in our opinions, to the job besided marketing. Isn't that what a "marketer" is for???? The bottom line is, we understood that no longer were we to care for the residents, they were there so they were now unimportant to the company. Before they told us to "get out", we got out. And in good timing. A few weeks out we realized the beating my husbands health had taken. It took a while for him to get back on his feet and be healthy again.
While we cared and still do care for the residents and miss them tremendously, we had to take care of ourselves. If we don't, who will??? So, yes, there is life after Holiday. A much better life, one that doesn't contain the continual browbeating that we and so many who write on this blog have experienced. Life is good, life is much more peaceful.
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Isn't it a shame that good people such as you and your husband and other managers were treated with no respect and pushed and pressured until your health fails or starts to fail....You are correct in saying that the residents did not matter any more...check out the YOUTUBE video on www.truthisbinary.com (brace yourself though-very sad and hard to watch) hopefully lots of people will see this and see what the company holiday is all about.....not the residents any more...$$$$$$$$$$ thats all folks.
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Survivor!
XYZ!
GHOST OF HOLIDAY!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT THAT THERE IS LIFE AFTER HOLIDAY AND TO KEEP THE FAITH!
My husband & I are HAPPY to announce that we have decided to take that LEAP OF FAITH & leave the HOLIDAY WORLD!!
This has been such an EMOTIONAL ROLLER COASTER OF EMOTIONS!!!
What started out to be a "CALLING & LIFE CHANGING EXPERIENCE" has now gotten to the point that it goes against ALL of our Ethics & Morals!!!
The GREED that this company has with our SENIORS is INEXCUSABLE!!!!
I am embarrassed to admit that I have worked for HOLIDAY RETIREMENT!!!
Watching the You tube video the GHOST OF HOLIDAY mentioned is a PRIME example of the INHUMANITY that Holiday continues to proceed toward!!!
Current Managers & Co's!!! I hope you see the writing on the wall that XYZ talks about!!!
My husband & I find it hard to comprehend LIVING LIFE AGAIN! BUT WE KNOW THAT IT IS POSSIBLE!!
It BREAKS our hearts knowing that what we have worked so hard to accomplish in our Community could possibly be changed over night depending on the TYPE of managers that take our place. We have a GREAT Community full of LOVE & PEACE!!
But we also realize that the LIFE as a manager and all of the expectations CAN NEVER BE MET!!!
We cannot stay around to watch the ramifications to our residents because of the GREED of the company!!
AGAIN, Thank you to all who have encouraged managers to PURSUE LIFE AFTER HOLIDAY!!!
Any updates on the Collative LAWSUIT?
We joined forces!!!!
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The suit is progressing well. Garcia Law has joined forces with the VERY impressive Howarth & Smith, http://www.howarth-smith.com/ - Please check them out. Talk about adding teeth to your bite!
Lead Counsel is still Garcia Law and they will remain so throughout. Continue to contact them for questions and to (PLEASE) join the suit.
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So true - it is all about the almighty dollar. Residents don't really matter once they are in. Managers are really sales people, it just plain sucks that this company continues to use and abuse all connected with it. The MANY daily emails, calls amd high pressure, people cannot continue to survive in the environment let alone thrive. They are killing the freaking Golden Goose. It could be so wonderful and successful again, but I don't think that will happen.
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Linny, THIS is the absolute, real, basic, gut wrenching truth:
Linny wrote:
PEOPLE - Holiday does not really hire community managers and co managers - they hire marketers, It does not matter that most communities have a "Community Sales Leader" - that is why things are falling apart. MANAGERS are supposed to manage - NOT be all about sales. This company does not care about the residents - SALES - that it is all they care about. Resident, staff be damned! Once you sign and move in - it is no longer about you!
The "managers" are a joke! They are Telemarketers! They don't even know what the BASIC policies & guidelines are for daily ops, hiring, or managing anything of any kind. I speak of the 4 SETS of managers I have worked under and must say...HOLIDAY is a joke and will be exposed.
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Does anyone have any idea what the national average occupancy is these days?
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After a few weeks alone as managers, with no cos or CSL or help of any kind in sight, we began tacking an index card on the wall in the office(where only my wife and I could see)every morning, denoting how many days we were working alone. And the days went by...36,37,38...49,50....62,63,63.
FINALLY after 65 days of working alone we got co-managers...who then needed to unpack and get familiar with everything, etc...
So we worked another 5 days before we could get time off.
And it was such a source of amusement for our RD...that we were alone for so long.
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WOW...sound like you guys had a plate full. We experienced a similar introduction when we took our first building as lead managers. Ours was not as extended as yours. We took a building that was in trouble, to say the least. No co-managers, first 30 days and no chef either. But what made our experience not as bad as yours sounded, we did have our Regionals support and care, no she did not come to the community, but offered lots of information and ideas how to handle our situation. We were not new to the company, we had actually worked at 1 community for a little over a year and transfered to another for less than a month before this oppurtunity came available. This was when HOLIDAY was HOLIDAY......We did not mind doing the extra time, got us on board quickly...we knew if needed help, we could pick up the phone and RD or her assistants would be available. At least back then, more than six years ago....the RD knew something about the operations part of running a community...they were promoted from within. You do not see any of that today....I would bet you there is not 1 r/d out there that can pour piss out of a boot, let alone pour a RESIDENT a cup of coffee...and one better than that "one that would want to". They do not even know what a resident is.....NOPE...just a number to them.
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We did not experience anything that bad either. GHOST is right - your RD will not come to your aide. They could care less that you are overworked - underpaid (you NEVER get extra pay for going that EXTRA mile and working all of the jobs) they count on us being commited to the people - the residents! I have said it before and will say it again - EVERY RD should be REQUIRED to work at the community level as a manager before being hired. They have no clue - not that I don't think they are not under pressure from higher up too. But the problem is that Fortress just does not care about ANY of it's employees. They worship the almighty dollar.
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This is EXACTLY what the lawsuit is about! I hope you will join us!
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Please give a little more info as to what this law suit is about. Is it only for hourly floaters who have to be on call all night but not paid once the community is locked up? Does it include regular managers or co managers who are salaried nad required to do the same?
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Hi Linny,
The suit pertains to the Fair Labor Standards Act, and is specifically for managers and co-managers. NO ONE can be required to work off the clock, it is entirely illegal. If you were/are and hourly on call manager I would STRONGLY encourage you to call David Medby and ask how you can be included. Once again this all started because a former EC was paid over $3500.00 overtime for baking cookies on her own time. When we arrived at Whispering Oaks as co's our EC (not the same one) was out with a broken leg. Our insane managers were calling her all the time, when we took over I received multiple calls from HR telling me over and over and over again not to call her for ANYTHING. Byron Shinkle also made sure I knew that even calling her regarding who she had scheduled for entertainment was against the law since she was receiving workers comp. NO ONE CAN WORK OFF THE CLOCK EVER, it is in all of Holiday training manuals - Grass Roots and otherwise. You are not an exempt employee unless you have FULL hiring and firing rights of at least two individuals, and even there are set salary requirements which Holiday does not nealy meet based on the minimum time required to be spent in call - let alone what you actually work.
3.
Salary - The regular rate for an employee paid a salary for a regular or specified number of hours a week is obtained by dividing the salary by the number of hours for which the salary is intended to compensate. The employee is entitled to an additional one-half times this regular rate for each hour over 40, plus the salary.
If, under the employment agreement, a salary sufficient to meet the minimum wage requirement in every workweek is paid as straight time for whatever number of hours are worked in a workweek, the regular rate is obtained by dividing the salary by the number of hours worked each week. To illustrate, suppose an employee’s hours of work vary each week and the agreement with the employer is that the employee will be paid $480 a week for whatever number of hours of work are required. Under this agreement, the regular rate will vary in overtime weeks. If the employee works 50 hours, the regular rate is $9.60 ($480 divided by 50 hours). In addition to the salary, half the regular rate, or $4.80, is due for each of the 10 overtime hours, for a total of $528 for the week. If the employee works 60 hours, the regular rate is $8.00 ($480 divided by 60 hours). In that case, an additional $4.00 is due for each of the 20 overtime hours for a total of $560 for the week.
In no case may the regular rate be less than the minimum wage required by the FLSA.
If a salary is paid on other than a weekly basis, the weekly pay must be determined in order to compute the regular rate and overtime pay. If the salary is for a half month, it must be multiplied by 24 and the product divided by 52 weeks to get the weekly equivalent. A monthly salary should be multiplied by 12 and the product divided by 52.
http://
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Interesting to know about the compensation. I want in on the lawsuit. Things get worse every single day. We are on a ZERO spend for the year. We have to do a pa-001 to buy 1 freaking stamp!!! $.45 requires preapproval! We cant even get our full time employees christmas gifts!!! That makes us look like TOTAL assholes! It makes us FEEL like that too! We cant buy our residents gifts either! We are to get people to donate items We are NOT a homeless shelter!!! We are a multi billion dollar company! We've heard our District leader say he's heard people say the holiday touch is gone. He said he disagrees, its NOT gone...He is either totally blind and ignorant or...i dont know what. These people clearly dont know or remember what the holiday touch means
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you would think that the paper used to print and ink, time it takes to fax and receive back ,would be well over the cost of a roll of stamps, you should get the p-card get gifts for the residents and staff, hand it all out, they don't like it--they might fire you, you do as they ask, they will just fire you anyways---for doing your job....do good for the residents while you can, make a difference, leave there with a sense of knowing you made a difference while you could. Hey I got fired over not having an onboarding task not being done when my Co-manager wanted it done, even though I had worked 3 16 hour days in a row for 5 events back to back to back---they just dont care!! Leave with your head held high, not with knowing you couldn't do anything. The Holiday's suck for people who work for Holiday --while MR. Holiday himself Jack and his cronies will have a very, very Merry Christmas you better believe...MAKE A DIFFERENCE and stand up for whats right!!!
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Thank you for posting Seenenough. I went through the same with the Rancho Cucamonga Community. This company isn't for the staff or residents. All they do is make cuts and raise the resident's rent. It's pretty sad cause, most of the residents are out living their money and won't be able to afford to keep living there.
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Please give a little more info as to what this law suit is about. Is it only for hourly floaters who have to be on call all night but not paid once the community is locked up? Does it include regular managers or co managers who are salaried nad required to do the same?
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It is for managers and co-managers. It probably includes floating managers as well. It is related to compensation...specifically how you are compensated as though hourly, and yet do not get overtime.
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The suit pertains to the Fair Labor Standards Act, and is specifically for managers and co-managers. NO ONE can be required to work off the clock, it is entirely illegal. If you were/are and hourly on call manager I would STRONGLY encourage you to call David Medby and ask how you can be included. Once again this all started because a former EC was paid over $3500.00 overtime for baking cookies on her own time. When we arrived at Whispering Oaks as co's our EC (not the same one) was out with a broken leg. Our insane managers were calling her all the time, when we took over I received multiple calls from HR telling me over and over and over again not to call her for ANYTHING. Byron Shinkle also made sure I knew that even calling her regarding who she had scheduled for entertainment was against the law since she was receiving workers comp. NO ONE CAN WORK OFF THE CLOCK EVER, it is in all of Holiday training manuals - Grass Roots and otherwise. You are not an exempt employee unless you have FULL hiring and firing rights of at least two individuals, and even there are set salary requirements which Holiday does not nealy meet based on the minimum time required to be spent in call - let alone what you actually work.
3.
Salary - The regular rate for an employee paid a salary for a regular or specified number of hours a week is obtained by dividing the salary by the number of hours for which the salary is intended to compensate. The employee is entitled to an additional one-half times this regular rate for each hour over 40, plus the salary.
If, under the employment agreement, a salary sufficient to meet the minimum wage requirement in every workweek is paid as straight time for whatever number of hours are worked in a workweek, the regular rate is obtained by dividing the salary by the number of hours worked each week. To illustrate, suppose an employee’s hours of work vary each week and the agreement with the employer is that the employee will be paid $480 a week for whatever number of hours of work are required. Under this agreement, the regular rate will vary in overtime weeks. If the employee works 50 hours, the regular rate is $9.60 ($480 divided by 50 hours). In addition to the salary, half the regular rate, or $4.80, is due for each of the 10 overtime hours, for a total of $528 for the week. If the employee works 60 hours, the regular rate is $8.00 ($480 divided by 60 hours). In that case, an additional $4.00 is due for each of the 20 overtime hours for a total of $560 for the week.
In no case may the regular rate be less than the minimum wage required by the FLSA.
If a salary is paid on other than a weekly basis, the weekly pay must be determined in order to compute the regular rate and overtime pay. If the salary is for a half month, it must be multiplied by 24 and the product divided by 52 weeks to get the weekly equivalent. A monthly salary should be multiplied by 12 and the product divided by 52.
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It has been 2 years since the wife and I left Holiday, and reading all this tells me that things have, apparently, not improved and, if anything, have gotten worse.
When we began at Holiday, we were almost immediately promoted to Managers. We accepted the challenge (shall we say the property was a challenged one? This property was considered to be the arm-pit of the region) and proceeded to bring the Holiday Touch to the residents. During the following year the community's reputation soared with residents, potential residents, health care givers and even at the local hospitals. We had not only turned the community around but had increased census by 30%. In one year.
Our RD was certain it was his (constantly changing) marketing schemes. Never mind that those same practices were not working for the rest of the region. To tell him that we were doing it with the Holiday Touch was like speaking to a wall....
Our 2nd year brought intense pressure from the RD to produce more move-ins at an ever accelerating rate. We got word from others that his philosophy was to put the most pressure on the performers.....
So...while we were being successful and getting the crap beat out of us (figuratively speaking) there were communities in the region that were losing census.
It was becoming increasingly difficult to keep up with all the marketing demands and the operational ones...
That spring, in a meeting, we were actually told that "I don't care if water is running down the elevator shaft, if you are marketing, you do not stop." Honestly...exactly as said. It was at that moment that I made up my mind that I was getting the heck out of dodge.
Within a month of that meeting I was terminated for something operational, that did not cost the company a penny...
I was told by the RD, while being terminated, that he counted me as being "If not the best manager in the region, than in the top 3."
Since I was feeling a huge sense of relief...the world's weight had been removed from my shoulders...I really didn't care about the whys. I found out that within a month or 2 he was terminated.
During our 2 years at that community we had become one of the senior management couples in the region. That is pretty sad, but seems consistent with the rest of the company.
For a while I toyed with the idea of looking for another position in retirement housing, but eventually decided against it.
I cannot understand (after over 20 years working for a fortune 50 company) what they are thinking by doing what they are doing. Any semi-intelligent person should be able to realize what is going on, what is wrong.
I do not understand how a company can justify the turnover rates they have and not have some form of realization that something with their "model" isn't working worth a damn.
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BB.....That statement you made in next to the last paragraph....that is "THE PROBLEM" they are not even semi-intellegent... as a matter of fact that is an insult to the people that are semi-intellegent putting these goons in the same class.....lol
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I think they fully know (they have to!) what they are doing..it is obviously supposed to be a "short term fix" that has gone horribly awry and become the operational model.
I just do not understand.....
Our first year was wonderful..sure there was pressure, but what job doesn't have it? We worked long hours, sure, but they were rewarding.
Once the pressure to market, sell sell sell reached the degree it did during the 2nd year, it was no longer rewarding. We seldom had real contact with the residents..only what was absolutely necessary. At that point, being paid crap pay became important. At that point not having much time off became an issue. At that point running as fast as you can to stay on the treadmill became a questionable modus operandi. We realized that it didn't matter how well we did, until we reached 100% census with a waiting list (wasn't going to happen at that community) we would not be able to even pause and catch our breathe.
Currently there are twice as many managers-comanagers at the community doing what we did, and doing it poorly. I truly felt for the residents, what we were NOT doing for them that we should have been (2nd year) and what would happen once we were gone...
It's the only job I have ever had that made me feel the way I did...both initially feeling as if I was contributing to society...as well as how badly I felt at the end...talk about a roller coaster ride!
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Left 2 years ago...best decision I ever made. Curious if the Enrichment Coordinators were ever put back to 40 hours per week. When I was hired it was 40, then the hours were cut to 32 but the job duties INCREASED. After I left I took a job paying less per hour but made more money and worked fewer hours!
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It is still 32 and many more duties have been added.
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No shame. Visiting Communities that he is pillaging and leaving skeletons of what once was. Liar, cheater, evil are the words that I wanted to use when I met him. Merry Christmas Jack. Hope your family is well and happy...
Jack R. Callison, Jr., Chief Executive Officer
Jack R. Callison, Jr. is the Chief Executive Officer. Jack provides the strategic direction and executive leadership for all aspects of the company's investments, operations, and finances.
Prior to joining Holiday Retirement in 2008, Jack had oversight responsibility for over 70,000 multi-family apartments across the United States as the President of U.S. Operations for Archstone Communities (NYSE: ASN). Archstone owned $22 billion of assets and was a member of the S&P 500 Index prior to the organization going private in October 2007.
Jack also held a number of other senior management positions during his 12-year tenure with Archstone. Prior to joining Archstone, Jack worked for Helen of Troy Limited (NASDAQ: HELE) and KPMG Peat Marwick.
Jack currently serves on the Executive Board of Directors for the American Senior Housing Association and is a past board member of the National Multifamily Housing Council as well as the Colorado Chapter of Junior Achievement of America.
Jack earned his Bachelor of Business Administration Degree from UTEP and is also a Certified Public Accountant (CPA).
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Well, another co-manager couple bites the dust. Yes, yesterday a couple in Texas finally had enough of the "So-Called Managers" of a holiday community and left their employment. The community is losing residents that are tired of being treated like s..t and with no respect. Also the managers are evicting Seniors out of "Their" homes when they try to stand up for their rights or speak up. Folks, this is "America"....if it were not for these Seniors none of us would have the freedoms we have today....and we are going to stand by and let them be treated with no respect or dignity. There are more in this community that would move...but just are not able to do so...and they should not have to. Get rid of the so called managers....If you know someone in a holiday community advise them to move-out or if you know of anyone looking for a place to call "home" it is not holiday retirement. I have never been more sick to my stomach about a company than I am with holiday retirement. There has to be some laws or some intervention from some where. "THIS MUST STOP".......
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My wife and I were Co's in Arlington, Tx until about the same time. Mgr's Dave & Robin were impossible.
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Hey Kirk, they have not been able to keep any co-managers. Dave and Robin are trying to leave Fox Run, they have asked for a transfer. There is a set of new co-managers coming in about a week and following that there will be a set of managers coming in to train as well. Sorry it did not work for you guys...Fox Run use to be a 100% building with very little turn over....residents or employees. Hope you guys have found something suitable that works for you. Lots of luck
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Robin in particular tries to run off anyone, residents and employees, who do not see eye to eye with them. She "got rid" of those residents who were bold enough to complain to the company. She lied in reports to Resident Relations. I know this because we witnessed it first hand. We tried hard to not to get caught up in all the Sxxt that went on but once we heard they had asked for a transfer we felt that if we stayed we would be in real trouble. First with all the normal move-outs that happen as a matter of course, but with all the move-outs that Robin forced through her actions. Robin ran off residents she didn't like and those who would not or could not move she made miserable. David, I believe could be OK but he has been with Robin for nearly 40 years, since Jr High School, and can't see what everyone else sees. She is dishonest! She is a control freak. I believe she is a thief! She is a liar! But David will not see it. Anyone who tries to do a good job at Fox Run under Dave and Robin will never succeed at Holiday. Robin will see to it. The day we left several of the residents came to us with tears. They were heart broken because another set of Co's had been run off by Robin. All they want is stability in their HOME. That is what Robin did not understand. The residents want stability, they want honesty, they want cohesiveness with in the Management Team. It was hard for us to leave because we had developed a relationship with so many of the residents. Some of whom told us on that morning they had been instructed by Robin NOT to talk to us but needed to say goodbye to us. We truely miss our friends that we had grown to care for in the 5 weeks we were there.
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I can't believe it. Just received an e mail from Glassdoor listing the top 50 companies to work for and guess what? Holiday isn't listed....I demand a recount. Not on their best day. Hey Jack, ever hear of the Emancipation Proclamation.
Get on board with the lawsuit. You'll fell so much better.
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What is going on in all of the Holiday communities?
Latest trusted stats/info show that only 23% (71 communities) have a census of 95+%. I believe only 12 communities had 100% occupancy at end of November. Word has it that Holiday has a list of communities either sold or about to be offered for sale. Info is that investors will "own" the company, but will pay Holiday to "service" it. Wouldn't that be nice - if Holiday would actually "service" their buildings like they used to? Remember the "sweet sixteen" of long ago - it appears a few more for sale have been added to that list.
On another note: I have had emails regarding alleged cases where veterans were approved but never actually received the in-house care they were supposed to receive. Who checks on this type of thing? Does anyone have any info about this? If true, then whose fault would it be?
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To DL:
My community used an attorney based out of TN to complete the AA paperwork with the vet. Holiday never had a "hard"policy on follow up. Originally it was corp. that covered pending apps, then it was the manager's job, then the ax fell and no one followed up. Imagine that!
As far as the sell off....yes it seems Holiday is evaluting several "acqisitions" on the block. Also if your RD has been in your community with a corp. suit, chances are his (her) days are numbered.
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It seems that bad practices have caught up with Holiday. In October, we noticed that there was a huge jump in move-outs.
I think that happens a lot, where the veteran claims they are getting services and they do not. Or they are continuing to drive while getting the benefit. As far as I know, there is no checking by the VA. When I brought this up with an RD, I was told not to worry my little head over it...
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Two issues: 1. people were applying for the A&A, and some received it, but pocketing the money. Holiday deferred rent and expected to be paid the deferred amount, yet they did not. 2. some people never filed. so the deferred rent was not never repaid, because there was no money ever expected.
It was a good program to help seniors and veterans, but very VERY flawed.
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Was looking for DL's comment, but I can't find it.I will check with my Holiday people and find out what is going on. I know they are having a lot of special events to rent, but don't know how many are rented or what is going on. Been busy. Will let you know...
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Never a dull read here. I try to check in every 3 weeks or so to see what the latest is on soap opera that is Holiday. Interesting on the zero spend. Approval to get postage? No gifts for residents or employees? SHAME on this pathetic Grinch of a company. I have nothing but contempt for a company who devalues good employees and what they do to residents - well what I would like to say I can't because it wouldn't get past the DL censor!
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"ALERT" This just happened today in a Texas community. Eligant dinning at its best; ate breakfast on paper because they had no dishwasher. Manager said "she wasn't going to wash dishes". Not only that but a resident that has been in this community for at least 9 years and pays above 3000.00 per month, her daughter went to the office today and told the same manager that she and her family would be eating lunch with Mom and the manager told her they could not..."they did not have enough food". What is going on with holiday? These residents pay the thousands of dollars they pay and only $3.75 per day for "3" meals a day come out of the rent. That is less than $115.00 per month going for meals.....that leaves roughly 3000. this resident pays per month....what is she getting for this. And the bad thing about her turning this residents family down for lunch....they always pay for family meals. The saga keeps growing
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I would be totally embarresed to even have to tell a family member that there was not enough food. I could see if it were even 8 people or if they had a lot of other guests there, put for 2 people that is a joke. I know it won't probably make any differance if they complain to HO, but who knows. This is the way things go now I guess.
We've done our share of dishes along with serving at the same meal; it is not easy and the residents were good about being too demanding, they really had to look out after each other at that point sometimes. If it was just one or two meals that is one thing, but when you have a dishwasher quit and none in sight, that is when the Man Power comes in handy if you ask me. And there were times we used the paper also like when an ice storm hit and we were missing several employees for the day.
It is a balancing act to keep up with and also all the other marketing baloney. Residents get dished out whatever now and I imagine there are a lot of the so called managers who think they are above doing manual labor. There were times on our days off where we helped as needed, just so the manager was not so overwhelmed with all the work. I doubt if there are many who treat it as a group of family members they are entrusted to care for.
Some people like to cut their own throat.
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Our region is running a pilot program where new residents are now REQUIRED to sign a 90 day lease. We had a guy sign this 90 day lease, he passed away before he could move in, he did not occupy nor obtain keys. The RD does not want to show any canceled move in: so ------ The family will receive the final statement and they will be expected to pay out the 90 day term.
Greedy Money Hungry Company
Collecting money from a dead man
Holiday Touch ?!?!?!
Bill Coleson would be ashamed!!!
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Here is a website that someone had posted on glassdoor. It is headed as The Worst Company in America? www.truthisbinary.com It has links to tell your story, join a lawsuit, etc.
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To: Nightmareworld
THANK YOU for this link.
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My husband and I have FINALLY, FINALLY extricated ourselves from Holiday after 4 years (we were Co-Mgrs, then Managers, then Floaters). I am just barely beginning to feel like a normal person again. I feel like I have PTSD!
We have joined in on a class action suit for hourly Floaters, and there is another suit being put together for Managers/Co-Managers. Here is the contact person's information:
Annette Farnaes
Rosenberg, Shpall & Associates
Symphony Towers
750 B Street,ste. 3210
San Diego, Ca. 92101
afrsalaw@yahoo.com
Tel: 619-232-1826
Fax: 619-232-1859
She said absolutely pass along her information, and please contact her if you are interested.
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There is already a class action suit well under way. With two major law firms in CA. We have to be very careful about diluting our impact.
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I was wondering about that. We are already involved in the one for unpaid overtime for Floaters with the other firm, but would gladly join the one for Managers/CoMgrs with the firms in CA if it's not too late. Please let me know.
Thanks
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Please contact me with any lawsuit info. Myself, and several other Holiday victims would like to know what can be done to participate in any lawsuit and or exposure going on at Helliday Retirement - Thank you
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My husband & I have are now FREE @ last!!!! It is going to take us a while to DE-PROGRAM ourselves from Holiday!!! Yes,it's like having PTSD !!!!!
We are really enjoying "Living" again!!!!!
It's been scary stepping away, but it can be done!!
We were with Holiday almost 4 years --- but when we were told to do things against Ethics & Morals-that's when it was time to step away
Now our question is: If we have already joined the other Lawsuit, should we join this one?
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You should join the floater one if you qualify. But if we dilute the class action we won't win. The one we filed is moving along. Meetings have been held with Holiday attorneys and discovery motions have been filed. There are two top notch lawfirms working in conjunction to make this happen. Once this became public knowledge it was expected to see other attorneys jump on the band wagon. We have been working on this suit for over 6 months, but had to wait to announce it on the blog because of corporate moles. And just in case the question should pop up - I will not make one cent more than anyone else in this suit, I had to sign a contract that I wouldd not accept any money or settlements from Holiday to settle this on my behalf. I tried for over a year to initiate a suit, finally Garcia listened and after hours and hours and hours and hours of phone calls, a trip to Philly - at my personal expense, including time off of work, we brought this suit to life. So let's all band together in this one manager/co-manager suit to get Holiday to FINALLY do the right thing.
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I just made a post as a former resident, who just left under severe conditions and a 2 week VA hospital visit, with a Doctors note to leave the place for multiple reasons. Please look at my post. I just did it a few moments ago, and thn saw your post about an actual suit.. PLEASE CALL ME, WE PAST AND PRESENT Resd. need a voice. Please call me at 303-960-9529. Joe....what can I do? Can you give me your attys name without it effecting your situation?
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Has anyone had any luck receiving bonuses that were verbally promised after resigning? If so, what exactly did you do?
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There is life after Holiday. I started a new job with the US Labor/Job Corps. You would think you would be micro-managed there but not. Happy Melissa and Keith Williams fired me but sad they won't let me visit the residents. Good luck to everyone on the lawsuit.
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I would like to take a few seconds and wish everyone, especially, DL A very Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New Year!!! Whatever religion or belief, I wish you the best!!!!
Merry Christmas, Achmed and Action Jackson!!!
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Thanks Anon, back atcha
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Thank you so very much. I hope you also have a wonderful Christmas and a very Happy New Year.
To ALL Current and Past Managers and Co-Managers and Executive Chef's - Activity Directors:
I want to wish you ALL a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
You all deserve nothing but the very best in your lives and I trully mean that.
This blog, thanks to DL, has been and still is very informative to so many of us as well as residents and potential residents. For many many years Holiday Retirement was the very best in senior retirement and a great company to work for. We all spend many hours working and never would dream of creating a law suit against the company because the Colson family treated us well and they wanted us to be happy and they understood that if we, as employees, were happy the building would be full. These were the times when the Executive Chefs shined and put in many extra hours to create the very best food and what have you for the residents.
These were the times when residents gladly would have their families come and join them for meals and instead of taking mom and or dad home they came to the building. They knew their loved ones were treated well by staff and the company.
Did we complain at times ??????? Sure we did but overall it was a great company and Bill Colson would never ever tolerate anything like it is these days.
For those of you who remember Bill Colson and the entire corporate culture at that time, please keep them in your prayers.
Over the past years I have had some harsh comments on this blog. Forgive me for that but please remember nothing was meant personal except for the upper management of current Holiday as well as the Regional Directors.
Marry Christmas and a Happy Healthy New Year.
Bless each and every one of you.
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PLEASE PLEASE HELP US RESIDENTS!!! All of the postings I've seen so far are from former employees and like. I just left holiday in Co. due to being in the VA Hospital for over two weeks. My Dr. Wrote a letter to the effect that I must move due to the goings on at the place. When I told the main Mgrs. I was leaving, and will give him the keys on my way out, and that we need to discuss payment. I hadn't yet mentioned the Dr. Note I have. I didn't ask to get out of,the lease at all! But before I could get the words out of my mouth, he said out loud to the office "hey everyone Joe hasn't paid his rent yet because he's leaving" he said it multiple times. As a 100 percent disabled PROUD MILITARY MAN WITH PRIDE, I was stunned, and could only utter the words "is this how you really are?" I was hurt, and still am. That was a week ago, I'm now very happy were I am, and I'm with 5 others who left for like reasons. So there you have it from a former resident. I think you mentioned not bringing a suit because of the man who started holiday Colson I think you said. I understand your respect for him. But what about ALLLLL of us who pay for this bad service. What about us? So many of you seem to care, but these posts go back to 2008 and it has only gotten worse. Believe me it is severe. From serving rancid food, to the bad treatment of US people. Sorry for bashing a little, but I'm really hurt by them. So when will the talk turn into action? Or should I say CLASS ACTION?. I'm not hiding, PLEASE COULD SOMEONE HELP US? My name is Joe and my cell number is (303) 960-9529. Or please leave word with family member Alice at home number 303-425-4103. And yes! Even if you are a holiday emp. Or whoever..we residents past to present need a VOICE. HELP US PLEASE.. I left so many friends behind at that place. And I feel like if I don't at least try to help them, I should, and deserve, to go to HELL without passing go. It would a SIN not to do something. If I would have died at the VA Hospital. Would you still say a suit isn't needed. Thn tell what else to do. I'm getting pissed just writing this, and I now am shedding a tear for my fellow comrades I left behind. Even when I saw my first soldier take a high velocity round to the head. IE: high velocity rounds cause cavitation. Yes, the heads pretty much gone..but we NEVER NEVER EVER EVER LEAVE THEM BEHIND. And never did, at the risk of our own lives.. But I just left over 100 of them to die at a place none of them want to be. But lack the intestinal fortitude to leave. As many older people do. We need a voice. A real one...sorry for ranting so much. But I'm human. And most of us have feelings, others work for holiday. Sincerely Joe.my real name.
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PLEASE DON'T CALL THE 303 425 4103 number. After telling her what I did, she actually said "what if they want to hurt me" she wasn't kidding. So now I fear reprisal for my words, so please don't call